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  • A lot of these questions are popping up on the episode pages and the discussion pages so I thought I might create a master post to collect them. These are not for questions that have yet to be answered but for questions whose answers seem to have been swept under the rug or forgotten and dropped.

    Here are some of the gaping plot hole questions I've seen. Please add your own.

    • Why didn't Roan take Clarke to Nia to help her overthrow Lexa? He even tells Clarke when he gives her the knife that she's only heard Lexa's side of things. If Nia had Clarke, she could overthrow Lexa and take over the Coalition and unbanish Roan.
      • Without using social media to find the answer, was Roan banished from Azgeda or from Trikru? And why? How? What?
    • Who the hell is Gina and where did she come from?
      • And how long had her and Bellamy been dating anyway? A couple of weeks, all three months? What was their relationship like? What was her favorite color? If she's so important to the plot then make me care about her! (Otherwise, she's just a lazily-written plot device who got fridged.)
    • Did Monty's dad really die the way they told him? If so, why were Hannah and Pike acting so suspicious about it?
    • If this show isn't about romance, then why did Lexa need Clarke to change her bandage when her injury looked fine and she probably has an entire coterie of people to do that for her? And why was she in her nightgown?
      • And I still don't understand Clarke and Lexa bowing to each other and have no interest in reading a 5-paragraph essay on it. I should not have to read fan-written essays to understand what is going on in a show.
    • WTF was that election supposed to represent? It made absolutely NO sense.
    • Why is Abby so incompetent? (I'm just going to copy/paste what I put in my review last week since that still stands.)
      • Constantly badgers Raven in an unhealthy way while ignoring Jasper who has more critical issues occurring
      • Released Jasper from Medical after he almost started a war
      • Forcibly brought Jasper back to the place of his trauma to "face his feelings"
      • Moved half of Farm Station into Mount Weather after having been warned numerous times that it was threatening their truce and tried to excuse the move as part of "saving Nyko's life"
      • Held an election less than a day after joining the Coalition
      • Gave said election to a man who broke the law moments earlier by arming ten people with guns to go massacre those same people she just joined a coalition with
      • Did not radio Indra ahead of time to warn her Pike was coming
      • When Octavia wanted to break the rules, told Octavia, "That's not the way we do things." Since when?!? Kane had to freaking shock-lash your insolent ass and now you've decided to follow the rules??
    • Why would Indra so willingly help Clarke radio Kane after her army was slaughtered by the Sky People and Kane couldn't even bother radioing her ahead of time to warn her?
    • How come we never got to see Raven grieve for BFF Gina (and who is Gina again)?
    • Bellamy disowned his sister? And Clarke? All because a plot device died?
      • Why did Bellamy argue against executing Delano if he's "always wanted" all Grounders to die?
      • And why did he also not kill Anya or the Ice Nation scout when he had the opportunities?
      • Again, I have no interest in reading a 5-paragraph essay on it. I should not have to read fan-written essays to understand what is going on in a show.
    • Why did Lincoln refuse to leave Arkadia once the kill order was lifted when he's been wanting to run away since IABD? Especially considering he knows how badly Octavia wants to leave? (And it's not because of that BS peace excuse. He attempted peace with Anya and Clarke and was still wise enough to want to leave when that didn't work.)
    • Why was Clarke made ambassador when she hadn't ever been to Arkadia, much less had been off-the-grid for three months?
      • Literally anyone else who was there from Arkadia (including Pike) would have been more qualified
      • At the very least, Clarke should have had some conversations with her "people" she hasn't seen in three months (Abby, Bellamy, Octavia, Kane, Pike) before letting them return to Arkadia so they could hold an impromptu election for a new Chancellor, reject the Coalition they just joined, and then go massacre the 300 warriors the Coalition sent to protect them.
      • Speaking of which, why didn't Abby let Clarke know that even though they just joined the Coalition moments earlier, she was going straight back to Arkadia to hold an election for a new Chancellor the very next morning? That seems like something an ambassador should know.
    • Why did Lexa so readily agree to letting the Sky People off the hook while she's camped out above her 300 dead warriors?
      • And considering the smell, why did she decide to set up camp there of all places?
      • Does that tent seriously get set up wherever she stops for the night, complete with the ostentatious decorations?
      • Did she not remember that just two days prior she was fighting Roan to the death to keep command because the entire Coaltion (except for Clarke) gave a vote of "no confidence" in her ability to lead???
      • And I still I have no interest in reading a 5-paragraph essay on it. I should not have to read fan-written essays to understand what is going on in a show.
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    • Roan's banishment Was Part Of The rules Of The Coaltion He Was Banished From Azgeda Jason Said That On Twitter

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    • PersonofPerson2001 wrote:
       Jason Said That On Twitter

      As I said above: "Without using social media to find the answer, was Roan banished from Azgeda or from Trikru? And why? How? What?"

      Either way, why wasn't it shown onscreen?

      And it still doesn't explain why Roan wouldn't take Clarke to Nia because if Nia had Clarke, she would have control of the Coalition and could unbanish Roan herself.

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    • Skyzy wrote:
      PersonofPerson2001 wrote:
       Jason Said That On Twitter
      As I said above: "Without using social media to find the answer, was Roan banished from Azgeda or from Trikru? And why? How? What?"

      Either way, why wasn't it shown onscreen?

      And it still doesn't explain why Roan wouldn't take Clarke to Nia because if Nia had Clarke, she would have control of the Coalition and could unbanish Roan herself.

      I mean Its Still episode 5 we have a hole season a head of us

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    • ok, sry if this is long,but here is the thing: this show is great, but you have to understand things on a very deep level, and need to understand that when we stop watching, when the tv screen goes black, they are still there, their story continues offscreen, why not explained onscreen? i do not know. but to answer your questions, here it goes:

      roan hates his mother, or did, and getting clarke to lexa means his banishment would be lifted. he probably did not even know about his mothers army marching towards polis when he brought clarke to lexa and he even killed to ice nation warriors on the way, meaning he is not loyal to them, at least not in his mind, so he does not see how bringing clarke to his mother would help him.

      banishment of roan, i agree, some offscreen story is the only thing that might explain that, JR is probably not going to waste time with it onscreen...

      gina, come on... she is obviously from the same crash ship as kane and abby, but she met bellamy after MW, their time was short and romantic, he loved her, and in the premiere their relationship just started becoming something, so..

      how his dad died, watch the show, probably something happened and will be revealed or pike and hannah went trough hell and did not know jow to explain that to monty.

      clarke is a med student, she probaly knows stuff about medicine that would make grounde4rs think she is a witch, she changed her bandage because it was probably the first one since the fight, and we know bandages need to be changed regularly. nightgow... probably a common thing, since clarke was wearing the same thing....

      clarke bowing to lexa is something even i do not understand but if you check some of my other comments, i have a few theories... lexa bowing to clarke is the same story, i have a few theories and i wrote them down in other comments, but she probably just wants her forgivnes, since she loves her...

      arkadians are scared and elections were scheduled some time ago.. people just thought pike was the best man for the job at the moment, and the vote was close. the elections were meant to make kane offical chancler, that is why they were held.

      abby is stuck between two jobs, and when she sees it is too much for her, she helds elections to obtain only one, she cares about raven because they are friends and jasper was like this for months so people assumed that he just needs time, he diud not just started a war, he was just stupid and abby had bigger problems to dela with, sending him to MW was smart, he needed to stop crying over maya, arkadia probably did not have enough space for the whole farm station, she did not control the elections, people voted, they attacked at night, kane and abyy probably did not even know what happened until it was too late, and again, she is a mess, and cares about octavia

      indra was ordered by lexa to do it,

      raven is no longer grieving because of the limitless drug, and was trying to push down her grief alonside her pain before that,

      bellamy is a mess, and hate to break this to you, he does not have time at the moment to love clarke, he is following pike and sees clarke and octavia a threat to his people, why he does all that? he is scared for octavia and wants her protected and thinks that being a grounder is not good for her, as for clarke, he told her in her face, what he tought, he does not trust her any longer...

      bellamy is still somewhat torn inside as to wher to draw the line with grounders, and is influenced by pike heavily, he is not hinking clearly...

      BS, sorry, but it seems that he is telling the truth about that, and also some of his people, trikru, nyko, are still there, he obviously will not leave them ther alone, while everyone there wants them dead...

      clarke chose to be the ambasador, but since 3x5 we do not know why she is still in polis.

      clarke asked her, and sice lexa loves her, she litteraly cannot opose her, she will do everything and anything wahtever clarke tells her, because she loves her...

      the camp was not made by her, it was wher indra was, when she came there, indra set that tent up

      yes

      lexa hopes that people will not opose her because she rules over them


      hope that answers at least some of your questions, but i will also say that the show still has episodes to go and we might see our questions answered...

      the only thing i would ask, if there was any reason or answer or comment given on twitter, fb, or anywhere else, regarding clarke bowing to lexa, as good as this season is, that seen was and always(unless they give a god damn good explanation) will be the piss poor of the piss poorest baddest and lamest stupidest writing decisions ever. seriously, i would rather see trump for the president rather than not knowing what the fuck was that scene suppost to be.

      sorry for the long post, hope you at least found some answers...

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    • "arkadians are scared and elections were scheduled some time ago.."

      Haven't had a chance to finish reading (at work) but I wanted to address this really quick.

      In Ye Who Enter Here, Abby tried to hand the Chancellor pin to Kane and that's when he told her to have an election instead. THAT SAME NIGHT/MORNING, after they join the Coalition, after MW was exploded, and after Abby and Kane stopped Pike, Abby decides to hold the election??? We know this timeline from Hakeldama because Clarke mentions it's been two days since the summit and when Pike comes back from the massacre, he states he was elected 24 hours ago.

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    • read more and i think i wrote down about abby wanting to hold the elections not for purpose of that, she wanted to stop having two jobs at the same time and focus on her being a doctor. the people voted for pike but abby and kane did not predict that. them being stupid is why pike won.

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    • Gina and Bellamy knew each other know the Ark

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    • 86.130.10.66 wrote:
      Gina and Bellamy knew each other know the Ark

      As I already said twice before, show me where it says that onscreen and not from an interview or tweet from JR. Considering this is a TV Show wikia, things that are this important to canon should not be disseminated from the show runner but should be shown ONSCREEN.

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    • "this show is great, but you have to understand things on a very deep level"

      Considering my edit history, I think I understand things on a pretty deep level. ;)

      Roan: he might hate his mother but he was trying to get Clarke to assassinate Lexa. Why bother taking Clarke to Lexa to assassinate her when he could have taken Clarke to Nia and had Nia overthrow the Coalition. It leads to the same result: Lexa dead and the Ice Nation ruling the Coalition. And his banishment from the Azgeda by Lexa should have been explained more clearly onscreen because all it did was lead to massive confusion.

      Gina: Gina was nothing more than a poorly written plot device and fridge trope. We knew nothing about her, not even what station she was originally from or when she and Bellamy started dating. How are we supposed to believe he loved her when all we saw of them interacting together was him kissing her face? (Which he spent more time doing with Roma onscreen than we ever saw of him with Gina.) Gina was a worthless character created solely to kill off to give Bellamy some angst. Again, fridged for character "growth." She did not remotely pass the Bechdel test. (And don't get me started on their treatment of WOC.)

      Monty's dad: at this point, with the mess the rest of this season has become, I'm now assuming it was just a poorly written story that fell flat and there isn't anything more to it than that.

      Clarke and Lexa nightgown scene is a common occurrance in the Grounder world? Okay.... Clarke and Lexa bowing to each other: still hasn't been fully explained onscreen; only in tweets and interviews and fan-written dissertations. Again, if it's not shown onscreen, it's not canon.

      Election: already answered this. It was an impromptu decision made by Abby and held THE SAME DAY they joined the Coalition, MW got bombed, and Pike set out the first time to massacre 300 warriors. Just because Abby was stuck between two jobs she's been doing for THREE MONTHS already does not give her an excuse to hold an overnight election at such an integral time. It is 10000% Abby's fault that Pike is now Chancellor and this is such a huge problem with the plot that they aren't even able to recover from because everyone's motivations stem from this colossal mistake.

      Bellamy: "hate to break this to you, he does not have time at the moment to love clarke" What does this even mean? If you think I'm a Bellarke shipper, you couldn't be more wrong. ;) Bellamy's character was given half an episode to go from a two-season redemption arc to a villain. THAT is what I have a problem with: not whether or not he "loves" Clarke (ew!).

      Clarke as ambassador: As Octavia said, she hasn't been around for three months! And now with the Sky People rejecting the Coalition, why is she still there? She still doesn't have any idea what is going on in Arkadia. She is basically a glorified courtier is what she is.

      Lexa's about-face with the "blood must NOT have blood" is because she loves Clarke and does what Clarke tells her? And then since she's the Commander, she will use her power to create a dictatorship to force everyone to obey her? What a terrible leader! She needs to be removed from power immediately.

      Indra wasn't in the tent when they found her. In fact, there were no tents visible on that field.

      "that [bowing scene] was and always(unless they give a god damn good explanation) will be the piss poor of the piss poorest baddest and lamest stupidest writing decisions ever. seriously, i would rather see trump for the president rather than not knowing what the fuck was that scene suppost to be."

      I mostly agree with this. I think the election takes the cake on the piss-poorest, baddest, lamest, and stupidest writing decision ever. It single-handely ruined the entire Arkadia plot and made everything meaningless conflict that didn't need to happen if Abby's head wasn't shoved so far up her own ass. And thank you for responding so thoroughly!

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    • One meaningful flashback scene between Bellamy and Gina to show us how important she was to him would have been nice. Maybe they could have had a scene where Bellamy discussed his guilt over the MW massacre and she convinced him that she understood he did what he had to and would always be there for him. Then, his breakdown would have made more sense.

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    • skyzy, as someone who likes to see other peoples opinions of this show, i have nothing but rerspect for you for this site and your comments, and i understand what bothers you. it bothers me as well, this show is making to damn much things in one season, and a lot of it is not onscreen. i also do not like to find plotholes explained on twitter and other sites(and even then only halfway), they should be onscreen, and that makes things bad for this show. now, just before we get back to the questions at hand, i just want you all to know that my explanations, as they are only my opinions, are only meant to give you some answers that you cannot see onscreen, or are just hinted and we do not see it or understand... now:

      about roan. he is written in the show just for a few episodes, in an interview, zach said that he met JR on a prty and he just asked him if he would like to come to the show for a few eipsodes. i believe that he was never some brainchild of the show, like river song in doctor who, but was just kinda there, i do not even think we will see him ever again... kinda bothers me to have to admit this, but for this season his storyline was the worst for me, saying this only 5 episodes in the show, of course, i hope they make some more storyline as the season progresses...

      gina: ok, there i have to give it to you. JR admitted to only have her for gatting killed off and screwing with bells emotions. first, i have to admit, nice acting of her character, and her death scene was excacly, and possibly the only one this season, by the shows standards. that said, yes, piss poor writing of the relationship.

      the story of the dad, i think we will see more of that story, i do not belioeve that is all we get about monty this season, so worry not about that one....

      elections... i think we could both write esseys about that one(haha), but i agree with you, bad writing and stupid decision by abbys....

      sorry but i was only being general about that one, i am not a bellarke shippper myself but honestly, current dynamics of bellamy/clarke i believe are better that ever before, that hate/ protection thing they have going on....

      clarke, well i think it is pretty obvious why she is staying in polis, she has nowhere to go right now. people who she did everything for, killed for, taken care for, no longer care about her. she killed finn for the allience, and now the arkadians no longer want that, not to mention the way bellamy acted towards her. let us not forget that she is a med student, not some hardcore warrior, she had to be a leader and then she left because she was doing someone elses job for too long. making decisions that took their tool on her, and she did it all for people who now hate her, she let ton dc happen for bellamy and now he has the nerve to lecture her for it.. she is hurt, emotionaly, and lexa is the only one who is showing her any kind or sign of copassion. clarke sacrificed a lot and she needs something right now, that does not require her to face everything she has done.not to mention that she made lexa not retaliate, because she will always do everything for her people, even when they do not know that. but she needs some love right now, a friend who understands what she has been trough...

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    • "skyzy, as someone who likes to see other peoples opinions of this show, i have nothing but rerspect for you for this site and your comments, and i understand what bothers you."

      Truthfully, the only reason I am still watching this show is because of the time I've invested on this wikia and how much I enjoy reading other people's thoughts and opinions. I had hopes that maybe I was "watching it wrong," but there are too many problems with this season for that to be the case. It is so disappointing to see a show fall so fast. I had such high expectations and faith for this season so it stings even worse that this is what we've been given instead.

      Roan: I think you might be right that he's probably not coming back this season. That's really disappointing because he was one of the few great characters in a season full of one-note, flat, and overdone caricatures of people we used to love. At least Octavia and Lincoln seem to have gotten some of their mojo back (they were wasted the first four episodes and it's not going to help matters when they kill Lincoln off).

      Monty's dad: if it is addressed in future episodes, I will admit I was wrong and be fine with that. If they don't address it, it's just one more fail on the already too-long list of failures this season.

      Bellamy/Clarke: I don't like it at all. There is something that heavily bothered me about that scene (and it wasn't just the handcuffs). It's the feeling I get when I feel threatened (i.e. walking alone to my car through a poorly lit parking lot). I have no desire to rewatch the episode or the scene to even figure it out right now, but I can't shake off this new . . . fear (I guess?) of Bellamy and who he has become. It's really a shame that his turn to villainy was based off a plot-device girlfriend and an illogical election gone wrong. It could have been done so much better and been so much more believable (they did a better job with both Finn and Jaha than with Bellamy).

      I'll give you the Clarke argument as to why she's staying in Polis. That being said, she should still have no say over anything dealing with the Sky People because she can't have one foot in, "I want to be the leader" and the other foot in, "I just want to escape." As Octavia told her in BMHB2, that's not the way it works. She took it upon herself to decide who lives and who dies; she needs to either be fully on-board or walk away entirely. What she's doing right now: wasting space and causing more problems because she is absolutely clueless as to what is going on.

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    • Guys, guess what?!!! Something AMAZING just happened!!!




      Another thing just got confirmed via social media: http://kimshum.tumblr.com/post/139893700106/is-the-wrist-band-that-was-on-niylahs-wrist-in



      Can we create a new game and start a new thread in the forums, and each time we see a plothole confirmed via social media/online, put it in the thread and by the end of all 16 episodes, count how many times a plothole had to be confirmed online?

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    • Well, she kinda has a point. We know that they're scavengers. The IN warrior in 301 had the Farm Station beacon on his waist as a shiny bright trinket.

      But, they wrote the scene where Clarke eluded to it as if the wrist band at that point in time had a purpose. So, yep, plot hole.

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    • Milks26 wrote:

      But, they wrote the scene where Clarke eluded to it as if the wrist band at that point in time had a purpose. So, yep, plot hole.

      I'd say this is along the same lines as Octavia's "monster" in The 48. It was highlighted enough that people put more weight on it than was intended. Maybe this is the same situation with Monty's dad?

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    • TheOmegaWerewolf,good idea about having a topic with that. can someone make it(please do not judge but i do not know how to create a topic) and maybe already put in the things writers alredy said via media, like i red somewhere that they tweeted abot raven being straight(i honestly do not know why they would have to tweet that) and stuff like that...

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    • TheOmegaWerewolf wrote:

      Can we create a new game and start a new thread in the forums, and each time we see a plothole confirmed via social media/online, put it in the thread and by the end of all 16 episodes, count how many times a plothole had to be confirmed online?

      I got one! How about the ambassadors of the 12 clans showing up at the end of Ye Who Enter Here. If it wasn't for social media, I would still think they were Ice Nation representatives.

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    • If it wasn't for social media, I would still think they were Ice Nation representatives

      Oh yes! That's a really good one.

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    • JR might keep saying Bellamy is not a recycled Finn 2.0 plot, but he also now says he based the 300 dead off the My Lai massacre (same thing he said about Finn).

      From 12/3/2014 about Finn: "we did a lot of research into soldiers who have been involved in similar atrocities of war like that, the My Lai massacre and various things that happened in Iraq and are trying to skew as close as we can to real, psychological ramifications to things like that."

      From 2/25/2016 about Bellamy: "Again, there’s historical precedent of people involved in massacres like that. A switch flips in your brain and you do these things. The My Lai massacre took place over hours and hours and hours."

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    • New plothole? In Bitter Harvest, Bellamy says, "the Commander's message was clear: 'blood must not have blood,'" when they're discussing wiping out that Grounder village. So, how did they get the Commander's message? And why didn't Lexa and Clarke ask for the "interned" Grounders to be release in exchange?

      Also, during that same conversation, it is made quite clear that Monty, Bryan, and Monroe knew exactly what they might have to do at that village: wipe them out. Not sure if they intended to go along with it if it had actually gone that route and I'm not sure if we'll ever be told. But, Bellamy seems to be speaking for all of them when he tells Pike, "We'll do what we have to do."

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    • I don't personally care for Abby or Kane, and yeah, the shows a huge mess, giving me too many flashbacks of Under The Dome Season 3, I know i'm mentioning this alot, but that's what it keeps reminding me of because that season was a really bad experience for me in the Television Watching Season of 2015

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    • Skyzy I do love your assessments thus far.. there are too many inconsistencies and implausibilities for me to take this show seriously anymore. 'I want to believe'.. but in this case, I just can't....

      One more comment about Roan.. if Zach wasn't committed to the show in the first place, then why write him in in such a crucial role?? This is just one Big missed opportunity because this plot thread had potential and now it will never be realized. The fight between Roan and Lexa and its plot twist was a cool element but it will only be a wasted effort if Roan doesn't become a more prominent character in the series. Zach: you're better off sticking with Black Sails. At least that's a show with a strong future!

      Some other misgivings about this show that I posted elsewhere, but now wish to repost here to your list:

      For one, Clarke's decision to kill off the mountain people.. the old and rehashed "us or them" ideology.. if Clarke really believed in starting fresh and abandoning the 'old ways', she could have tried harder to find an alternative solution.. and in this case, it wasn't hard at all. She had the power to reverse the ventilation system. So logic has it she had the power to return it back to its original state. SHE DIDN'T HAVE TO KILL THE MOUNTAIN PEOPLE, she just had to cripple them! Turn off the ventilation until they couldn't help themselves, and then turn it back on again once everything was clearly in their control. She had access to all the cameras so she could observe their state.. anyway, this is just one case of the simple one dimensional thinking of the series writers to conveniently end one plot thread and start another..

      A second bone of contention.. Pike's draconian agenda to eradicate all grounders.. sure he went through hard times and lost a bunch to the grounders but it doesn't take much to understand that they're not all alike. there's good and evil in all of us.. the grounders are human just like Pike. He was a teacher for god sake! He should have known better. His actions make no sense. He obliterates an army sent to protect them. If he had doubts, a sensible man would have awaited the outcome of the peace coalition negotiations. Okay even so.. he might have acted out of lack of knowledge of what was happening in Lexa's nest, but that certainly wasn't the case when he chose to exterminate innocent villagers. And now as you stated they had knowledge of Lexa's change in stance regarding "Blood must not have blood". Wouldn't this give Pike and others enough reason to doubt their actions?? But everyone blindly follows his vendetta cause despite the evidence to the contrary. Quite ridiculous IMHO.. I wouldn't want to live under that kind of stupid leadership.. nor should they!

      And then the 'City of Lights' plot thread.. an AI program gone wild.. and seeking an upgrade.. in a 13th pod left behind on earth a century before. Of course ~after all this time~ it's still going to be functional! Right! ..exposed to the elements and the grounders and god knows what else.. Don't get me started on that one!! It just makes me laugh so hard.... and to think Murphy is the only sane person of the entire bunch! that's just not saying much about the quality of the writing of this show I'm afraid.

      and.. the election.. very bad timing, and just another poorly executed plot-twist device.

      and yeah.. who the HELL is Gina? i've already forgotten... *just a little bit of sarcasm* ;)

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    • Pike (and all the rest of Farm Station) is still so one-note. I keep waiting for more backstory. Maybe we'll get it in the Arkadia-centric episode that is supposedly coming up but that backstory should have come sooner. Right now, it's hard to believe we're supposed to sympathize at all with any of them? It's too little, too late.

      The CoL plot is pretty much the only thing they haven't screwed up too badly yet. Most of it is stuff I speculated on back in April-June so I'm happy to see all my ALIE speculations coming true and maybe that's why I like it still?

      "Turn off the ventilation until they couldn't help themselves, and then turn it back on again once everything was clearly in their control."

      The problem with this is that it's like being a little bit pregnant. The second she (and Bellamy) opened those vents, the Mountain Men were dead, no matter how quickly they closed them again.

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    • Skyzy wrote:
      Pike (and all the rest of Farm Station) is still so one-note. I keep waiting for more backstory. Maybe we'll get it in the Arkadia-centric episode that is supposedly coming up but that backstory should have come sooner. Right now, it's hard to believe we're supposed to sympathize at all with any of them? It's too little, too late.

      Agreed..

      The CoL plot is pretty much the only thing they haven't screwed up too badly yet. Most of it is stuff I speculated on back in April-June so I'm happy to see all my ALIE speculations coming true and maybe that's why I like it still?

      I will read your speculations and get back to you.. But personally I just wish the writers would invest more time and effort on one plot thread at a time rather than hastily moving on or jumping around so much.. it risks watering down everything accomplished to this point which is basically what is happening now..

      "Turn off the ventilation until they couldn't help themselves, and then turn it back on again once everything was clearly in their control."

      The problem with this is that it's like being a little bit pregnant. The second she (and Bellamy) opened those vents, the Mountain Men were dead, no matter how quickly they closed them again.

      Now the science guy in me says that background radiation can not have such a drastic immediate effect on anyone.. even severe doses don't become physically apparent until hours after exposure.

      And according to this chart https://xkcd.com/radiation/ .. to receive a fatal dose of radiation in such a short time frame of less than a minute would be equivalent to being on site of the Chernobyl blast for the same period of time. ..and for blistering of that severity to occur - within that time frame, the intensity of radiation would have to be 3 TIMES that of Chernobyl!

      Not even the Sky peeps could survive that level of exposure!! let alone anyone!


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    • ...also for more on the effects of radiation on the human body go here..

      http://www.radiationanswers.org/radiation-and-me/effects-of-radiation.html

      ...as a useful reference to relate back to the radiation chart.. 1 Sv = 100 rem

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    • The whole Mountain Men radiation plot was really super make-believe and required a significant suspension of disbelief. I was willing to do so in that scenario simply because everything else that stemmed from it plot-wise was actually pretty fun and entertaining. It had a purpose for the story and in that case, I was willing to go along for the ride.

      The stuff happening this season, however, is beyond the point of suspending disbelief and into the realm of suspending logic and reason.

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    • I tried posting a msg and it just disappeared! Grrr...

      Anyway, long story short... I suspended my disbelief the moment the Ark came crashing down to earth, but that was essential to the premise of the show, so I went along with it. The show is taking too many shortcuts though and maybe it's spurred on by the network and ratings.. but anyway. We all have different levels of what we're willing to forego and forgive. I guess mine was reached long before yours..

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    • I consider the Ark coming down along the same lines as the MM radiation and the mutant gorilla: the campy part of Sci-Fi that you just go along with for the ride.

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    • Oh come on.. everybody LOVES a angry mutant gorilla! They made a whole series out of that too!  ;)..but joking aside...

      I guess I'm a bit jaded when series that I loved time and time again end up being cancelled simply because of ratings and money.. and then we're left with the scraps of half baked concepts and quick thrills. For me, I love immersing myself into a story with many complex layers and something that forces your mind to think out of the box while still clinging to a sense of realism. It's a fine balance which is hard to maintain.. the series Lost found that out all too well and all too late. But we don't get that quality programming often enough any more. BSG was a special gem because it got a reboot from an older version of the story that was quite popular and campy in the 70s. They were allowed some benefit of the doubt at first because it was a well known franchise. At first, when I heard they were redoing BSG, I rolled my eyes because I was never really crazy over the original. But the new guys at the helm were phenomenal in turning that story into something real, relevant and foreboding.. It's rare when I feel excitement like that. I feel that excitement with Game of Thrones as well because there I read the books well before the series became established, and I find it remarkable that the tv adaptation is very close to the way I imagined it would be but with some obvious and delightful twists along the way. Black Sails is brilliantly done as well and I guess it helps that it is rooted in a great legend but the telling of the story is so masterfully done it's marvel to watch.. those 2 are lucky though to have survived in a sea of mediocrity. There are a few other interesting shows out there too, but it's a big question whether they will ride the storm.. where so many others have fallen.. like Firefly, Continuum, Stargate Universe (the only SG series that was more than just thrills and joy rides), Farscape and even Babylon 5 (it was slotted to be cancelled in the 4th of 5 seasons it was planned for, and so the 5 yr story arc was compressed to 4 seasons.. and then last minute, it was given new life with a 5th season.. but it was an empty shell because a lot of the plot threads were already wrapped up by then). 

      But yeah, I take what I can get.. I just hope The Man in the High Castle isn't cancelled .. another brilliant gem in that great big sea.. which deserves to see the light of day! 

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    • I binged watched season 1 and 2 so that I could catch up to watch season 3.  With all the lazy writing and unbelievable plot devices I'm beginning to wish I had left well enough alone.  I still like some aspects of the show like where the CoL and ALIE. is going, but all the effort to make Pike and the rest of the farm station unlikeable is overkill.

      Why not let the interned grounders go?  Because they will provide intel about our security and numbers?  Right.  


      I just realized that ALIE = A LIE 

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    • Why not let the interned grounders go? Because they will provide intel about our security and numbers? Right

      The show is just a big mess. From the time the 'sick' grounders entered camp they have been inside medical. They have not ventured out. They can't provide any info that a few Grounder scouts high in the trees cannot see and report back to their leaders.

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    • this show so far: great potential, great footage, great cating and great cast... then it comes to writing. JR you really need to up your game, man. this show this season is not good. not at all.

      i guess pike and bellamy are scared of the grounders or something or maybe they just actually believe what they are saying, they were not the clearest minds so far... anyway, scouts would probaby be noticed because of the motion sensors or something... just hope clarke would come back, wonder if people still remember everything she did for them.

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    • I just remembered something so irritating. Abby was willing to get floated to keep Kane from becoming Chancellor. Yet she let Pike become Chancellor?!?!?!?

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    • Can someone shed light on the fact that throughout the third series Clarke has new cuts & bruises as the season progresses despite not doing anything apart from talking politics - as far as the lore of the show is concerned it would be understandable if shes been training to fight since shes been at polis because grounders respect strength more than anything else & yet they have made no mention of this so is it an oversight by the make up department - its annoying having to request all these answers to petty questions

      id also like to bring up how clarke is considered the most badass female on tv & yet all she seems to do is beg,cry and plead her way out of situations when i first heard she was going grounder i atleast hoped she would be familar with there weaponry & fighting styles & yet all shes done so far is talk..


      Am i the only one annoyed by this?

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    • To be honest, everyone (dilinquents and grounders) seems to have endured wounds that would kill, maime or serverly cripple someone for life.  Yet only Raven seems to show any long lasting damage. 

      It was mentioned that they were genetically engineered so I would accept rapid healing ability IF they would simply state that instead of having us guess.  Even so, GE is only going to go so far.

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    • 81.148.219.244 wrote:
      as far as the lore of the show is concerned it would be understandable if shes been training to fight since shes been at polis because grounders respect strength more than anything else & yet they have made no mention of this so is it an oversight by the make up department - its annoying having to request all these answers to petty questions

      Mysteries of Life wrote: It was mentioned that they were genetically engineered so I would accept rapid healing ability IF they would simply state that instead of having us guess.  Even so, GE is only going to go so far.

      It's simple things like these that most of us already headcanon to make sense out of the show that they should give at least a throwaway line of dialogue towards (like they did with the contraceptive implants).

      81.148.219.244 wrote:
      id also like to bring up how clarke is considered the most badass female on tv & yet all she seems to do is beg,cry and plead her way out of situations when i first heard she was going grounder i atleast hoped she would be familar with there weaponry & fighting styles & yet all shes done so far is talk.. Am i the only one annoyed by this?

      Nope. I'm annoyed, too. It's why the plot has fallen apart. When the lead isn't doing anything, the story isn't moving forward. The last time she did anything worthwhile was when she fought Roan all the way back in Wanheda (Part 2). Since then, she's just stood around wasting oxygen.

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    • Its so annoying having too have everything clarified like this--

      I was so hopeful for season 3 when i saw that still of clarke in her grounder getup from 3x03 - The story had such potential this season she could of become a anti-hero capable of fighting with more than just tears and lectures  & yet  its been spent on the lead protecting the group that every viewer wants dead - I still dont get why clarke is even loyal to them at this point it makes no sense

      I hope after the hiatus when lexas dead/missing she toughens up in a massive way cause at this point everyone hates her including those she supposdly represents

      but if shes an expert combatant after she leaves polis i might just give up with this show because shes done nothing but talk since the two part premiere

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    • Skyzy wrote:
      I just remembered something so irritating. Abby was willing to get floated to keep Kane from becoming Chancellor. Yet she let Pike become Chancellor?!?!?!?

      Another thing that irritates me: in 3x03, Octavia tells Bellamy she and Lincoln are leaving as soon as the kill order is lifted. (First, obviously she and Lincoln had a plan already in place so why did Lincoln change his mind?) Bellamy's answer was acceptance and that she will always fit in with him.

      TWO DAYS LATER, in 3x05, Bellamy tells her she needs to stop "playing Grounder" after he was willing to let her leave to continue "playing Grounder?" WTF?

      And don't even get me started that he trusted Lincoln enough with Octavia in WAG2 and he trusted Lincoln with Octavia in YWEH yet by Hakeldama, he doesn't??

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    • Yeah i thought that too - didnt he say he was staying at arkadia because it was the harder choice or some other lame excuse

      dont get me started on bellamy as far as concerned hes already dead after the writers demolished all his character development i dont care if they do some elaborate redemption arc the damage is done

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    • 81.148.219.244 wrote:

      dont get me started on bellamy as far as concerned hes already dead after the writers demolished all his character development i dont care if they do some elaborate redemption arc the damage is done

      Yeah, I wrote him off the moment he armed Farm Station with guns and went with them the first time to massacre all those warriors. He's not Bellamy but some other character they've introduced who looks and sounds like Bellamy; he's a pod person.

      Bob Morley is still fantastic, regardless. A true professional having to act out this racist BS plot.

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    • I get why he would be pissed off but eradicating villages is abit much - he always puts up petty resistance but it will never be enough.. even the tonDc bombing is kinda justifiable in a way it was meant to be a shared loss bringing two completly foreign cultures together but killing peace keeping forces just for the writers to eventually try and redeem him is a impossible ask unless he dies in the process

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    • Floating Hell! He's at it again. Another Jason Rothenberg interview where he tells us the missing plot (this time about Monty's and Monroe's involvment in the circumvented attempted massacre at the village). The scene was cut so they could include Clarke drawing Lexa sleeping since that was more important, obviously.

      "The truth is, unfortunately, a lot of times, these episodes, director’s cuts come in long, and we have to get it down to 42 minutes. Usually, we do that by cutting out the stuff that’s not that good, so if something’s really good, it’s usually going to end up in the show. Occasionally, things have to go because you get down to that point where you’re at 46 minutes, and you need to lose more. For instance, in the last episode, in 306, there was a little bit of a scene between Monroe and Monty, right after Jasper and Abby have their scene about whether or not he should take the chip, Monty, and Monroe are sitting there having a drink together and the camera’s on them, and they shared a little bit about what was going on in their heads. Which was, on Monroe’s side, “I trust Bellamy, I’m going to follow Bellamy.” And Monty was questioning what Pike was doing, and the fact that Clarke and the others are on the other side, and his mother was on the wrong side, as it is in our minds, and he’s following his mother. And we sense that, and I really wish that could have been in the show because frankly I think people rightly have questions as to why Monty and Monroe were on that mission in 306. I’ve actually thought about putting that out as a clip for people; it had to go for time, sadly. But anyway, good question because it made me think of that. Maybe I will put that out. "

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    • ^Why would you think it's because they had to show Clarke drawing Lexa?

      Regardless, the significance of that scene was Lexa's dream, I think. Maybe it was just a dream, or maybe she can really communicate with the former Commanders due to the whole CoL thing. Hopefully, that's the case because otherwise that scene was unnecessary.

      Personally, I've always hoped that the previous Commanders were in the CoL and that we would catch a glimpse of them eventually. For all we know, Lexa could have really been in the CoL in that "dream" scene speaking with the others. Since Clarke doesn't know about the CoL, it's not like Lexa can just say "Hey, I was in the CoL talking with a bunch of dead people".

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    • TheOmegaWerewolf wrote:

      Regardless, the significance of that scene was Lexa's dream, I think. Maybe it was just a dream, or maybe she can really communicate with the former Commanders due to the whole CoL thing. Hopefully, that's the case because otherwise that scene was unnecessary.

      Yep, that was my point. Lexa's ghost-talking with the previous commanders had better amount to something more important than the reasonings behind why Monty and Monroe would ever agree to massacre a bunch of Grounders. (And I still don't like Monroe's reasoning that she's just following Bellamy and still trusts him after the massacre.)

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    • Another plot hole:

      Why would Mount Weather, an extremely secure nuclear bunker designed to save the lives of many people, including the POTUS, have a self-destruct mechanism?

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    • everybody has that... i guess it was meant if the grounders came in and killed them all... or something like that, like takea as many of them with you as possible. but just activating the missiles, they didnt have like explosives in the walls or anything, pike stated that mount weather had more missiles so.... not excacly a plothole, more like VERY little explained part of the story... but yeah, almost every facility even today has that mechanism as a way of not letting it fall into the hand s of the enemy....

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    • Answering some questions from this thread:

      Roan: still doesn't explain why Roan picked Lexa over Nia. As to his banishment, NO ONE understood it because no one understood how the Coalition actually worked because it was never explained. We didn't understand how Lexa could banish someone from Azgeda so it was thought he must be from Trikru. We didn't understand how Lexa could unbanish him from Azgeda so it was thought he was trying to get unbanished from Trikru. Again, all this Trikru stuff was confusing because it was clear he was the Prince of Azgeda. All that was needed was a single sentence clarifying that Lexa had banished Roan from Azgeda to punish Nia for Costia's death. That's it.

      Gina: Flashback episode? Do you know something we don't know? And having a flashback episode this late in the season is pointless and unnecessary, especially if no one is even watching any more. The pacing is all wrong this season on top of the plot problems so if they go back and try to clear things up, it's too little, too late.

      Abby taking Jasper to MW: of course it didn't work! It was the most ludicrous and harmful thing she could have ever done. Simply opening a basic psychology textbook should have told her that.

      Abby and Farm Station in MW: Wrong, wrong, wrong! Nyko was going to discuss the Medical facilities. There was NOTHING discussed regarding moving half of Farm Station in and Lexa didn't know either, part of the reason Kane was so pissed about it because he was going to have to explain it to Lexa.

      Abby and the election: She was the chancellor! She decided when, how, where, and who of the election. That's on Abby; NO ONE ELSE. As to Jaha and Sydney getting elected, that's doubtful how it happened. You can read The Council page for more information on the Sky People government (I wrote that page, too). There was never any mention of elections being the way the Chancellor got elected and the closest we ever saw was Jaha appointing Diana Sydney to Abby's old Council position that Abby was removed from by the Council voting (not everyone else). The way Kane also asked for an election made it seem as if this is a new precedent he wants to set; not some normal function of the Sky People government.

      Bellamy and the Azgeda scouts in Wanheda (Part 1): he did NOT shoot to kill, but Raven and Monty did.

      Clarke as ambassador: YES, Abby should have made time to tell the Skaikru ambassador about the election. And the fact that there was so much going on with the MW explosion, joining the Coalition, taking part in the summit, and everything else occurring, AN ELECTION SHOULD HAVE BEEN A TOPIC FOR EVERYONE INVOLVED, including their new Commander. If Lexa as the Commander is able to banish Roan from Azgeda, then she should have absolutely been told about the Skaikru's plans to hold an election the next morning for a new Chancellor! This whole thing was so poorly done that all of the excuses in the world don't make it any more reasonable, even if Abby was "certain" Kane would win (making her even more incompetent than I ever believed possible).

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    • Skyzy wrote:
      Answering some questions from this thread:

      Roan: still doesn't explain why Roan picked Lexa over Nia. As to his banishment, NO ONE understood it because no one understood how the Coalition actually worked because it was never explained. We didn't understand how Lexa could banish someone from Azgeda so it was thought he must be from Trikru. We didn't understand how Lexa could unbanish him from Azgeda so it was thought he was trying to get unbanished from Trikru. Again, all this Trikru stuff was confusing because it was clear he was the Prince of Azgeda. All that was needed was a single sentence clarifying that Lexa had banished Roan from Azgeda to punish Nia for Costia's death. That's it.

      Gina: Flashback episode? Do you know something we don't know? And having a flashback episode this late in the season is pointless and unnecessary, especially if no one is even watching any more. The pacing is all wrong this season on top of the plot problems so if they go back and try to clear things up, it's too little, too late.

      Abby taking Jasper to MW: of course it didn't work! It was the most ludicrous and harmful thing she could have ever done. Simply opening a basic psychology textbook should have told her that.

      Abby and Farm Station in MW: Wrong, wrong, wrong! Nyko was going to discuss the Medical facilities. There was NOTHING discussed regarding moving half of Farm Station in and Lexa didn't know either, part of the reason Kane was so pissed about it because he was going to have to explain it to Lexa.

      Abby and the election: She was the chancellor! She decided when, how, where, and who of the election. That's on Abby; NO ONE ELSE. As to Jaha and Sydney getting elected, that's doubtful how it happened. You can read The Council page for more information on the Sky People government (I wrote that page, too). There was never any mention of elections being the way the Chancellor got elected and the closest we ever saw was Jaha appointing Diana Sydney to Abby's old Council position that Abby was removed from by the Council voting (not everyone else). The way Kane also asked for an election made it seem as if this is a new precedent he wants to set; not some normal function of the Sky People government.

      Bellamy and the Azgeda scouts in Wanheda (Part 1): he did NOT shoot to kill, but Raven and Monty did.

      Clarke as ambassador: YES, Abby should have made time to tell the Skaikru ambassador about the election. And the fact that there was so much going on with the MW explosion, joining the Coalition, taking part in the summit, and everything else occurring, AN ELECTION SHOULD HAVE BEEN A TOPIC FOR EVERYONE INVOLVED, including their new Commander. If Lexa as the Commander is able to banish Roan from Azgeda, then she should have absolutely been told about the Skaikru's plans to hold an election the next morning for a new Chancellor! This whole thing was so poorly done that all of the excuses in the world don't make it any more reasonable, even if Abby was "certain" Kane would win (making her even more incompetent than I ever believed possible).

      Roan's situation was not expained properly. Agreed. Then again, they have 16 episodes to deal with everything while other shows have 21-22. Also, I think Lexa is like the president while Nia like a senator. If Lexa says he is back, Nia can't really stop her. It's a matter of hierarchy. 

      On Gina's case, we didn't expect the "Spacewalker" flashback would ever happen but they managed to add it to the plot. We don't know what will happen in the next 8 episodes, so I can speculate they'll clear everything up!

      I think Abby was trying very hard to prevent a Finn 2.0 scenario and thought that reminding Jasper what happened to him would be enough. I don't think she expected his reply and how he understood it to be that worse.

      Well, even if that is the case, Lexa was clearly not planning something so drastic if she disagreed. She would tell them, leave or the consequences come. Same as with Finn. Give him or we kill you all. She is not entirely unreasonable.

      In the elections case, it is safe to think it's like every other election considering the nations that formed the Ark. The pre-announce a date, everyone votes (secret vote or public that doesn't matter) and they have a chancellor who appoints the members of the council. Though, rn the council doens't matter. Point is, Abby wanted to do the election the soonest possible so she could focus on the med bay and let Kane run things who was more willing and clearly better.

      Bellamy and the scouts: He was the leader of the party so responsibility of the other's falls on him. Their reaction was lose a friend or kill the enemy. So, I don't see the difference. 

      And lastly, now that I think about it, Clarke might have known. Notice Octavia's words when she explained what happened. "Kane lost the election to Pike" not "We held an election and Pike became the new chancelor." So they had been told about the election before it happeed. And how could Abby think that a one man rally would suddenly turn with Pike in it?

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    • Though I admit. Season 3 is based WAY too much on subtext. I got half of the information I know from comparing the trailer of the season with the episode scenes, making sure which are not in it, guessing what happens etc. So, I was even more surprised that we got a flashback of Becca's ark. I expected the Murphy explanation and the cave walls to be all we got.

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    • "The pre-announce a date, everyone votes (secret vote or public that doesn't matter) and they have a chancellor who appoints the members of the council. Though, rn the council doens't matter. Point is, Abby wanted to do the election the soonest possible so she could focus on the med bay and let Kane run things who was more willing and clearly better."

      There was no pre-announced date because Abby decided while she was in Polis that same day to hold the election the next morning. Point is, Abby should have focused on her last task as Chancellor to leave her people in good hands, not passing them off to someone who not only tried to leave with 10 other armed people to take out a peace-keeping force sent by the Coalition they just joined hours earlier but also had only been there for all of a day (Pike was living in MW prior and in Ice Nation even before that).

      The whole thing was a sham of unrealistic maneuverings, especially considering how much of a dictatorship the Chancellor position has always been. She could have just declared that the election is invalid and she's keeping the title or just given it directly to Kane after the election and lied about it (we know she's lied a TON when she thinks it's in her best interests; look at all of S1 for examples). No leader would have ever done what Abby did regardless of how overtaxed she was performing two duties. If she was that incompetent to hold an election right at that moment, then I really have no idea how she managed to last THREE MONTHS as Chancellor/Doctor without someone trying to assassinate her. She was a worse Chancellor than Pike.

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    • 176.92.65.17 wrote:
      Though I admit. Season 3 is based WAY too much on subtext. I got half of the information I know from comparing the trailer of the season with the episode scenes, making sure which are not in it, guessing what happens etc. So, I was even more surprised that we got a flashback of Becca's ark. I expected the Murphy explanation and the cave walls to be all we got.

      Yep and that is the biggest problem I have with S3 at this moment. This whole season feels like a hurried rough draft with no considerations or afterthought for the plot or the characters.

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    • Skyzy wrote:
      A lot of these questions are popping up on the episode pages and the discussion pages so I thought I might create a master post to collect them. These are not for questions that have yet to be answered but for questions whose answers seem to have been swept under the rug or forgotten and dropped.

      Here are some of the gaping plot hole questions I've seen. Please add your own.

      • Why didn't Roan take Clarke to Nia to help her overthrow Lexa? He even tells Clarke when he gives her the knife that she's only heard Lexa's side of things. If Nia had Clarke, she could overthrow Lexa and take over the Coalition and unbanish Roan.
        • Without using social media to find the answer, was Roan banished from Azgeda or from Trikru? And why? How? What?
      • Why would Indra so willingly help Clarke radio Kane after her army was slaughtered by the Sky People and Kane couldn't even bother radioing her ahead of time to warn her?
      • Why did Lincoln refuse to leave Arkadia once the kill order was lifted when he's been wanting to run away since IABD? Especially considering he knows how badly Octavia wants to leave? (And it's not because of that BS peace excuse. He attempted peace with Anya and Clarke and was still wise enough to want to leave when that didn't work.)
      • Why was Clarke made ambassador when she hadn't ever been to Arkadia, much less had been off-the-grid for three months?
        • Literally anyone else who was there from Arkadia (including Pike) would have been more qualified
        • At the very least, Clarke should have had some conversations with her "people" she hasn't seen in three months (Abby, Bellamy, Octavia, Kane, Pike) before letting them return to Arkadia so they could hold an impromptu election for a new Chancellor, reject the Coalition they just joined, and then go massacre the 300 warriors the Coalition sent to protect them.
        • Speaking of which, why didn't Abby let Clarke know that even though they just joined the Coalition moments earlier, she was going straight back to Arkadia to hold an election for a new Chancellor the very next morning? That seems like something an ambassador should know.
      • Why did Lexa so readily agree to letting the Sky People off the hook while she's camped out above her 300 dead warriors?
        • Did she not remember that just two days prior she was fighting Roan to the death to keep command because the entire Coaltion (except for Clarke) gave a vote of "no confidence" in her ability to lead???


      Just some thoughts on this whole matter:


      - Regarding the Roan situation, do we know for sure that it was Lexa who banned him, or did he potentially get banned by his mother, and was counting on the Commander's authority to overrule her command and send him back to the Ice Nation?   I'm considering this as an option, since Lexa did not take the option to kill both Roan and then spear Nia during the battle, and potentially put someone loyal to her on the throne of Azgeda. Instead she made it perfectly clear  that Roan is to be the new king, indicating that she prefer him to Nia. While she would of course hate Nia for what she did to Costia, would she still put Roan on the throne if she'd throught him dangerous enough to banish him? Roan said he could not approach Azgeda Warriors, why would he have to fear his own people if he was banished by the commander against his mother's will, especially with his mother more or less rebelling against Lexa anyway?

      -Indra. Yes, the whole Indra-situation does not make sense. Indra who was the  most misstrustfull towards the Sky People and still has no reason to love them helping, especially with Clarke seemingly having such a hormone-impact on Lexa that the leader Indra believes in does not think straight anymore just does not make sense. Why would she believe Kane had nothing to do with the killing anyway, since he did.not.inform.her. despite having the means?

      - The whole "Clarke as Ambassador" / "Blood must not have Blood" scenario is both so uncharacteristic for the Lexa they have shown us so far that it just seems like a way of patching her and Clarke up again, after Lexa probably turned out to be more popular than expected. 

      The Lexa we have seen so far puts politics before feelings, and seems able to count too. Lincoln himself was sure that she would not let her people die for the sake of a murderer (Which means for the sake of one  person.) Lexa was ready to accept the bombing of  TonDC to be able to save her people in the mountain, which most likely outnumbered those at TonDC. At the same time she had no qualms about breaking ther pact with the Sky People once they had outlived their usefullness, so she could save her own people without making more sacrifices.

      And suddenly, three months later, she suddenly lets 300 warriors be killed without an answer, just because Clarke is making puppy eyes at her after Lexa appointed her as ambassador? An ambassador who has been out of touch with the peole she's supposed to represent for months, did not want that responsibility, and is basically kept in Polis to humour Lexa at this point?

      The 'peace' argument for this is shaky as well; with Nia dead and Roan an ally for the time being, Lexa effectively has peace amongst her clans in the coalition. The only ones who are out of line are the Sky People at this point. Why would Lexa need to bring them into a coalition, knowing that the other clans dislike or outright refuse the idea? Why would she jeopardize everything she has tried to archive so far?  The only obvious reasons are her feelings for Clarke (if Skaikru are her people too, Lexa would not have to make the decision she made at mount wether again), but we have never been given the idea that Lexa would do something like this for personal reasons before. She made peace with the woman who sent her her lover's head, and yet she is now giving in to Clarke? Why?! 

      Also what is this whole 'scared of guns' argument all of a sudden? The reason grounders did not use guns,  or so we have been told in season 2, is that the Mountain Men would wipe out the whole village of the grounder who used a gone. Now with Mount Weather (and their technology too) blown up, their reason for not using guns as well is what? That they look more badass with swords?

      Why did Abby even stay chancellor at this point, if she wanted Kane to do it? That whole "re-election" thing could have been done one or two months prior, while they were apparently having peace; but of course it has to be done when it's too late to fix anything. 

      Bellamy suddenly turning into the "I will do everything to keep my people safe" argument makes as little sense as Lincoln not just running away with Octavia. Lincoln was always shown as having a deep understanding for politics and structures of power (demaning Clarke to talk to Anya, explaining the Sky People why Lexa was demanding fin, and why it was a good deal for the Sky People), and now he willingly stays at Arkadia when he can see what this mess is spiraling into?

      Both him and Lexa have apparently lost a nice chunk of their thinking ability between seasons :/ 

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    • Skyzy wrote:

      Yep and that is the biggest problem I have with S3 at this moment. This whole season feels like a hurried rough draft with no considerations or afterthought for the plot or the characters.

      The funny fact is that they pushed it back claiming that they would have time to make it better. ANYBODY NOTICED THE IRONY?!

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    • "Also what is this whole 'scared of guns' argument all of a sudden? The reason grounders did not use guns,  or so we have been told in season 2, is that the Mountain Men would wipe out the whole village of the grounder who used a gone. Now with Mount Weather (and their technology too) blown up, their reason for not using guns as well is what?"

      The only thing I can think about that is that the fear/superstition is so engrained in the grounder mythos that they don't dare tempt it even though they know the treat is gone.  Or perhaps like dietary restrictions called for by some religions, there was a true health reason back in the day that no long exists, the tradition keeps on.

      both are big stretchs IMO

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    • indra told lexa that the grounders dont stand a chance against the arkadia unless they use the guns themselfs.... so where would they get them??? that might explain why, they dont have them..... or maybe they dont know how to use them or something, i dont kn ow, but how could they have enough guns and ammo? not to mention, that yeah, they most likely have some religious reasons for not picking them up.......

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    • the reason they dont pick them up is because they think that if a grounder uses one that something bad will happen 

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    • According to Sachin Sahel this weekend at Survival Con in London, we're not going to find out why Jackson took the CoL pill. :(

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    • Skyzy wrote: According to Sachin Sahel this weekend at Survival Con in London, we're not going to find out why Jackson took the CoL pill. :(

      That's pointless.

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    • writers be like: lot of people took it and we didnt find out why....

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      • roan and nia appear to have a strange relationship, the season isnt over and nias death felt very anticlimactic, there could still be an ice nation plot in the works, ontari is on the throne in the trailer, not happened yet in the series. ;) ice nation are brutal maybe nia sacrificed herself as ice nation has show complex planning like with the mt weather incident.
      •  roans banishment may be connected with the previous mentioned plotting
      • gina is basically a plot device who got fridged u pretty much nailed it, bellamy seemed more upset at clarke staying in polis than ginas death but thats complicated on another level.
      • monty's dad dying did seems suspicious maybe they just wanted him to seem a hero to monty? 
      • previously the grounders have shown little understanding of medicine, when tris was dying, lincoln given CPR sure basic antibiotics and bandaging they can do but lexa has an obvious fondness for clarke and it makes a good excuse to get her in private to talk ( and other stuff too she did really seem to fall for clarke) not so much romance as character building she's torn between desire and duty.
      • the election is clearly a trump parody starring pike as trump, and an excuse to let pike get away with what he wants, it is understandable the ark people would still distrust the grounders they did betray them, people hold grudges. or pike's people could have rigged it is a possibility.
      • abby, well bless her that could take a lot of character evaluation
      • ditto for indra
      • and ditto again for bellamy
      • and lincoln
      • clarka as ambassador - she needed protection and lexa is conflicted between duty and feelings.
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    • i believe jason has made s3 to define the word: plotless

      anyway, this season is just bad.... and plotless

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    • What I can't understand is the thing with tentacles (ALLIE2). She came down to help humanity. However somehow the felt that "blood for blood" was better then a civilized society? How did ALLIE2 calculate that this was better?

      Am I to understand that ALLIE2; which can calculate a multitude of scenarios couldn't defeat the people of Mount Weather?

      Also this is happening some 90 years after the nuclear event. So how is it possible that the people around the first ALLIE2 interpreted the thing with tentacles as reincarnation rather than technology? We all - I believe - conclude it is technology so how did these people (the ones that lived with the first ALLIE2) interpret it as reincarnation/religion?

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    • Natemcd wrote:
      •  the election is clearly a trump parody starring pike as trump, and an excuse to let pike get away with what he wants, it is understandable the ark people would still distrust the grounders they did betray them, people hold grudges. or pike's people could have rigged it is a possibility.

      Ugh! No, no, no, no! Do NOT listen to what JR tells you you're supposed to think. Pike is in no way similar to Trump. It's insulting to Pike to make that comparison because Pike has never ever been a white, privileged male and he actually has a reason to hate the Grounders (unlike Trump).

      Other than that, I mostly agree with everything else you said. ;)

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    • 78.133.71.50 wrote:
      What I can't understand is the thing with tentacles (ALLIE2). She came down to help humanity. However somehow the felt that "blood for blood" was better then a civilized society? How did ALLIE2 calculate that this was better?

      Am I to understand that ALLIE2; which can calculate a multitude of scenarios couldn't defeat the people of Mount Weather?

      Also this is happening some 90 years after the nuclear event. So how is it possible that the people around the first ALLIE2 interpreted the thing with tentacles as reincarnation rather than technology? We all - I believe - conclude it is technology so how did these people (the ones that lived with the first ALLIE2) interpret it as reincarnation/religion?

      I really hope this is addressed in later episodes. Also, does the black blood "randomly" appear in Grounders? How were the Nightbloods created? Is it genetically passed on and they're all descendants of Becca? But how would that happen if they Battle Royale for the Commander slot without having children of their own to pass on the Nightblood "gene"? Did Becca use the other syringes to infect more of the population with the anti-radiation vaccine?

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    • Skyzy wrote:
      I really hope this is addressed in later episodes. Also, does the black blood "randomly" appear in Grounders? How were the Nightbloods created? Is it genetically passed on and they're all descendants of Becca? But how would that happen if they Battle Royale for the Commander slot without having children of their own to pass on the Nightblood "gene"? Did Becca use the other syringes to infect more of the population with the anti-radiation vaccine?

      I think that when Becca came down to earth she brought those vaccines/syringes with her and injected the Grounders (all or just a few of them, probably she didn't have enough for all of them). After that it was genetically passed throughout generations, but as you might know, not all biological and genetic characteristics of the parents are passed on and/or expressed. So some of the children were born with black blood and selected as Nightbloods, and others just had normal blood and considered normal people.

      We also don't know if the Commanders before Lexa didn't have children. Besides that, people who don't actually have black blood, can still have the gene but it just didn't got expressed and so they have normal blood, but they can still passe it on to their children and they can be born with that active gene and so have black blood, even if they parents don't. Not really sure if i explained my thoughts very well... But hope so!

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    • Skyzy wrote:
        • And I still don't understand Clarke and Lexa bowing to each other and have no interest in reading a 5-paragraph essay on it. I should not have to read fan-written essays to understand what is going on in a show.

      I just read your text and i'm sorry if this seems a silly question but what didn't you understand about Clarke and Lexa bowing to each other?

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    • them bowing to each other makes no sense, clarke wants peace but she would never be willing to basicly subjucate her people to the grounders.... but she did, by bowing to lexa. it makes NO sense....

      lexa bowing to clarke is just stupid, i mean, so now lexa will obey clarkes every command or something?????

      i mean, she does whatever clarke asks her but thats so there could be peace between their people....

      i dont know, i mean, it makes no sense to me, their bowing scenes.... just stupid writing without any reason behind them. basicly, clarke bows to lexa, which i hated, and tells her youre the boss of me now..... and lexa does it to tell clarke that she wants her to trust her.... just stupid.....

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    • Myheartisskippingbeats wrote:

      i dont know, i mean, it makes no sense to me, their bowing scenes.... just stupid writing without any reason behind them. basicly, clarke bows to lexa, which i hated, and tells her youre the boss of me now..... and lexa does it to tell clarke that she wants her to trust her.... just stupid.....

      I completely disagree with that perspective actually. The bowing scenes make total sense to me.

      As we all got the chance to see at the beginning of the episode (Ye Who Enter Here), it was completely out of the equation for Clarke the thought of bowing before Lexa, the person that betrayed her and she was so angry with. That's why later on she tried to kill Lexa but couldn't, 'cause she cares for her, and deeply knows she's a good person and that all she did back in MW was for the well-being of her people and not because she just didn't care about Skykru and Clarke. Hereupon Clarke knows that at this point what's best for her people is to join the coalition, it's the best way to keep them safe and strong, so she agrees to that. Bowing before Lexa is part of the ceremony and the ritual, 'cause she's Heda, the Commander, the one in charge so that's the way for the Ambassadors of each clan to show their loyalty and respect to the Commander. Besides that at this point Clarke had also unwittingly elevated herself as Wanheda, so if she didn't bow before Heda, the intire coalition would be jeopardized, what would be bad for everyone. So as always she was selfless and did what she had to do for a greater common good. Makes perfect sense to me.

      Of course Clarke was still hurt and divided, if she should or not to trust Lexa again and that's why after the ceremony she says to her "if you betray me again...", and Lexa completely understands this. She knows that what she was forced to do back in MW was a complete betrayal in every possible way to both Clarke and her people. This is why she says she won't, and why Heda, the Commander, who bows before no one, chooses to bow before Clarke to show her that, to show her loyalty and how committed she is to the alliance with her people and ultimately to her, by letting Clarke see her vulnerable, the thing no one else gets to see ever. Of course this gesture also works as a way of Lexa apologizing in the most sincere way possible to Clarke for what she was forced to do to her back in MW, and to try to get closer to her again, 'cause after all she's in love with her, and that's the other huge motive for wanting her trust back. Again, makes perfect sense to me.

      This is the way i see and interpret these scenes and why from every perspective i look, i see the point and it makes a complete sense to the plot line. But this is my opinion of course.

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    • Malckav wrote:
      Skyzy wrote:
      A lot of these questions are popping up on the episode pages and the discussion pages so I thought I might create a master post to collect them. These are not for questions that have yet to be answered but for questions whose answers seem to have been swept under the rug or forgotten and dropped.

      Here are some of the gaping plot hole questions I've seen. Please add your own.

      • Why didn't Roan take Clarke to Nia to help her overthrow Lexa? He even tells Clarke when he gives her the knife that she's only heard Lexa's side of things. If Nia had Clarke, she could overthrow Lexa and take over the Coalition and unbanish Roan.
        • Without using social media to find the answer, was Roan banished from Azgeda or from Trikru? And why? How? What?
      • Why would Indra so willingly help Clarke radio Kane after her army was slaughtered by the Sky People and Kane couldn't even bother radioing her ahead of time to warn her?
      • Why did Lincoln refuse to leave Arkadia once the kill order was lifted when he's been wanting to run away since IABD? Especially considering he knows how badly Octavia wants to leave? (And it's not because of that BS peace excuse. He attempted peace with Anya and Clarke and was still wise enough to want to leave when that didn't work.)
      • Why was Clarke made ambassador when she hadn't ever been to Arkadia, much less had been off-the-grid for three months?
        • Literally anyone else who was there from Arkadia (including Pike) would have been more qualified
        • At the very least, Clarke should have had some conversations with her "people" she hasn't seen in three months (Abby, Bellamy, Octavia, Kane, Pike) before letting them return to Arkadia so they could hold an impromptu election for a new Chancellor, reject the Coalition they just joined, and then go massacre the 300 warriors the Coalition sent to protect them.
        • Speaking of which, why didn't Abby let Clarke know that even though they just joined the Coalition moments earlier, she was going straight back to Arkadia to hold an election for a new Chancellor the very next morning? That seems like something an ambassador should know.
      • Why did Lexa so readily agree to letting the Sky People off the hook while she's camped out above her 300 dead warriors?
        • Did she not remember that just two days prior she was fighting Roan to the death to keep command because the entire Coaltion (except for Clarke) gave a vote of "no confidence" in her ability to lead???


      Just some thoughts on this whole matter:


      - Regarding the Roan situation, do we know for sure that it was Lexa who banned him, or did he potentially get banned by his mother, and was counting on the Commander's authority to overrule her command and send him back to the Ice Nation?   I'm considering this as an option, since Lexa did not take the option to kill both Roan and then spear Nia during the battle, and potentially put someone loyal to her on the throne of Azgeda. Instead she made it perfectly clear  that Roan is to be the new king, indicating that she prefer him to Nia. While 

      -Indra. Yes, the whole Indra-situation does not make sense. Indra who was the  most misstrustfull towards the Sky People and still has no reason to love them helping, especially with Clarke seemingly having such a hormone-impact on Lexa that the leader Indra believes in does not think straight anymore just does not make sense. Why

      Also, what is this whole 'scared of guns' argument all of a sudden? The reason grounders did not use guns,  or so we have been told in season 2, is that the Mountain Men would wipe out the whole village of the grounder who used a gone. Now with Mount Weather (and their technology too) blown up, their reason for not using guns as well is what? That they look more badass with swords?

      Why did Abby even stay chancellor at this point, if she wanted Kane to do it? That whole "re-election" thing could have been done one or two months prior, while they were apparently having peace; but of course it has to be done when it's too late to fix anything. 

      Bellamy suddenly turning into the "I will do everything to keep my people safe" argument makes as little sense as Lincoln not just running away with Octavia. Lincoln was always shown as having a deep understanding for politics and structures of power (demaning Clarke to talk to Anya, explaining the Sky People why Lexa was demanding fin, and why it was a good deal for the Sky People), and now he willingly stays at Arkadia when he can see what this mess is spiraling into?




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    • Show addict wrote:

      I completely disagree with that perspective actually. The bowing scenes make total sense to me.

      See, that's the problem. You had to write an essay to explain how it makes sense. That's bad writing. Same with Bellamy's OOC arc. It would have been believable if more time had been given to explain how he got worked up to that state. Instead, we're left with a fridged girlfriend whose last name we only learned after her death as his motivation for turning to the dark side. Now, with a single glance, Bellamy has switched sides again. If you can't lay the groundwork for a character to go from Point A to Point M, then don't make them go to Point M! It's lazy, pathetic, and thoughtless writing.

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    • @show addict,

      yes, i understand that POV with clarke..... shes not stupid, she knew lexa will always do whats best for her people and probably even knows that she would most likely take the deal herself..... lexa,as she said it, made the choice with her head, and it saved her people, 1000+ of them..... but this is the part i dont get. if the skaikru was to join the coalition, then they would only need the chancelor, who was kane, to bow down to lexa..... not clarke. what nobody is noticing(sorry if i am wrong here) is that clarek knows that lexa wants everybody see wanheda bow before her. of course it makes perfect sense that clarke would always do what is best for her people..... even if that meant bowing to lexa, as a leader and someone who cares about her people, she would do it without hesitation. BUT wanheda bowing to the commander was only meant to strenghten lexas position. clarke made her look weak, AND thats why i dont get that bowing scene. as a way to join the coalition, as a leader, as to show loyalty, YES, i get it. but clarke did it because she knew lexas position was threatened. AND that is whats wrong. clarek put her people in the hands of someone who was being challenged by her people, the coalition. that is not a safe place for arkadia. lexa was seen as a weak leader, joining that is not smart. no matter if she had feelings for her, the skaikru went in the hands of a leader who didnt have loyalty of her people..... clarke had to bow before her, not kane, thats what is wrong with this scene. clarke is someone who wuold do what is best for her people. joining lexas allience was not, because lexa was losing power..... so why would clarke put lives of all her people in the hands of such a leader????????'

      on the outside of course, it seems that @show addict you wrote is it, i was thinking the same thing. but as a leader, clarkes actions were not smart, for the reasons i wrote above. lexa told clarek to bow to her and in that moment clarke knew what lexa wanted.... loyalty of wanheda, not skaikru. so why help her after what she did? forget the emotions, think strategicly......  no sense from that perspective, lifting your betreyer, lexa needed to prove herself. to her own people and she did that by making wanheda bow to her. but from clarkes perspective, there was nothing to gain, yes, her people get in the coalition, but why would they? and into one that involves people who betreyed them before????

      lexa bowing to clarke i get, but clarke bowing to lexa....... i never will, so please convince me how that made sense, because there was nothing her people would gain so badly, it would be worth bowing to lexa.....

      please convience me otherwise....

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    • Myheartisskippingbeats wrote:

      lexa bowing to clarke i get, but clarke bowing to lexa....... i never will, so please convince me how that made sense, because there was nothing her people would gain so badly, it would be worth bowing to lexa.....

      please convience me otherwise....

      I'll try then...

      All you said is pretty much true and i totally can see where you're coming from.

      I also understand that you really hated to see Clarke bowing to Lexa, and that's ok because knowing what happened between them and the betrayal, at first it seems a wrong, diminishing move for Clarke.

      What you have to understand is that for Skykru, joining the coalition is the only way, as the newest people on the ground, to be automatically in peace with all of the other clans at once, without having to fear them, and becoming equally powerful, by ensuring they have the same rights and the same protection.

      Now they can only do this, if there is an actual functional coalition for them to join, and there is. But this coalition is at risk because of the power Clarke gained as Wanheda, which caused damages to Lexa's powerful image as Heda. So before all this, if she thinks that the coalition between all the clans is the best way to maintain peace and a civilized society, which it is, she only has two options.

      One is to support the present coalition that already is functional and has a recognized leader, the Commander, who at the moment just needs her support (loyalty and recognition of Heda's power by bowing before her, 'cause it's the way all of them do it when they join) to gain back the powerful image and trust from her allies, and then the coalition can go back to normal with The Commander's image restored. The second option is to not support the present Heda by refusing to bow before her, this would clearly lead to a riot, possibly Lexa's death and last but not least, maybe a war to decide who should be in charge and redefine rules, rights and the way the coalition should work. Skykru would be anything but safe in the middle of all this mess that would come from Clarke choosing this second option. Frankly i think that all hell would break loose, and all the work Grounders had done to create and maintain this coalition would have been sent right down the drain.

      Sooo, before these options, Clarke chose the first one, and in my opinion was the most pratical, strategical and logical one. If it meant that she would have to bow before Lexa, so be it, she knows she was doing what's right and better for everyone including herself, and she didn't dimish herself by doing that, she took the high road, she's still strong, she's still Wanheda. She just chose to show her loyalty and respect for Heda and the coalition, and by doing that got her people to join it. Ultimately she saved a lot of trouble, a lot of eventual deaths and most likely a war. As Clarke said to Lexa in one of their last episodes, what she did was a ceasefire that stopped a war.

      At last, why it was Clarke and not Kane who bowed, because Ambassadors are the ones designated to represent their people, and they are frequently in Polis as we've seen. Kane couldn't do this, 'cause he already was Chancelor and needed to be in Arkadia, not Polis. Clarke on the other hand was possibly the most important and known person from Skykru, specially after the Wanheda thing, so she was the obvious right and better choice and she was available and willing to stay in Polis, even because she didn't want to return to Arkadia.

      I'm sorry for the essay but couldn't explain all my thoughts in a smaller text.

      Hereupon yes, even from a merely strategical perspective i think she made the right call, Clarke bowing to Lexa has a major point and makes sense.

      So are you convinced now? Probably not... But well i sure tried my best to explain why and how all this makes sense to me! ;)

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    • well, i guess this does make sense..... but there were 3 months when all this wasnt necesery so.... why would it be then....

      thanks, i think i kinda do get it from THAT perspective..... atleast......

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    • Because during those three months they were after Wanheda, no one had succeeded to capture her... And then three months later they did. That's why it was necessary then.

      No problem, I'm glad it made sense from the perspective i explained! :)

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    • so, more or less, you think clarke knew lexa couldnt just let her go..... i guess that would make sense, in a way her character might responde......

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    • Not quite sure i understood what you were trying to say there...

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    • i mean, i guess, i kinda get why clarke did it..... KINDA.....

      guess she knew that lexa was weak, cause she told her that and knew that lexa might actually kill her if she would not become hetr ally..... because basicly the entire polis was kinda less and less loyal to lexa and clarek knew that getting the power of wanheda will restore those trust issues..... so she kinda was trying to save her own life...... by becoming her ally, by doiung what she said, by bowing to her, which meant heda was above her......

      i dont know, was that it? clarke wouldnt put her people in a coalition that wasnt strong, and sorry, but those arguments about the coalition being strong..... dont know, i mean, azgeda.... so why would she put skaikru in the middle od all that, that struggle, after months of peace...... her trying to save her life is the only thing i can come up with..... like lexa would either kill her, or they bocome allies. something like that, i dont know, how close am i???

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    • Donning Admin hat: Let's try bringing this back on topic to the plot holes or please start a new thread to discuss the Clexa bowing more in depth. :)

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    • Our discussion started at the Clexa's bowing scenes, but at this point we're beyond that and discussing about Clarke's decision and Skykru joining the coalition, if it was the right or wrong move considering all the circumstances. From my point of view this fits into the plot holes category, but of course we can go continue this conversation somewhere else, no problem at all. ;)

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    • I commented on this on the Terms and Conditions page but I'm adding it to the list: Why didn't Kane run over Bellamy when he had the chance?

      He literally compromised the entire rebellion and put EVERYONE ELSE'S lives in danger just to save Bellamy's life?!? Sorry, not buying it. We have a million examples from history where people have unfortunately killed others to save more lives or to keep a cause going. We have a million examples from Kane's own character history where he has consistently done what's best when that's the last resort. What's best here is for Kane to continue flooring it through Bellamy and the gates of Arkadia and deliver Pike to the Grounders.

      Instead, on the off-chance that Bellamy might be redeemable, Kane sentenced himself, Sinclair, Lincoln, all the other interned Grounders, Harper and Miller (he didn't know Bellamy and Monty would cover for them), and all the rest of the Sky People and Grounders that will be killed because he capitulated to Bellamy standing in front of his jeep.

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    • Skyzy wrote:
       Why didn't Kane run over Bellamy when he had the chance?

      Yes, finally, somebody noting that, amongst a lot of other, ridiculous scenes.. I didn't check Bellamy's page yet, maybe ppl already went over this there, but, waddaheck??

      Jason wants to play GoT, sure, go ahead. 'In this show everybody is dispensable, we make no difference, everyone can die', naturally, everything points towards that. BUT if that BS would be true, then why do you have apparently two leads are invincible and above death itself!?

      Bellamy himself is a walking-talking plot hole, or rather a black hole, just nothing makes sense around him... and he will get redemption, because he is the male lead and it makes sense story-wise, right?

      At this point it feels like we are playing D&D or something similar; the rough outlines of the story are given but essentially the players/fans are making sense/up the story.

      Well, at least they succeeded making the show "interactive" . . .

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    • I think that scene was just stupid... And made pretty much everything that happened until that point look stupid too. 'Cause why the hell would they go through that much trouble to capture Asshole Pike and hand him over to the Grounders, just to send it all the drain in the end, because Bellamy, The Roller Coaster, decided to stand in front of the jipe and Kane couldn't keep going and run him over.

      Did he and anyone else honestly think that if he simply kept going Bellamy would actually stand there and be run over...?! I think it's pretty obvious, at least to me, that he would have jumped aside at the last minute... He wouldn't commit actual suicide... He just comitted character suicide and that's as far as he will go, at least for now.

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    • i think the writers are trying(but failing sooooo miserably) to paint kane seeing himself as something of a father figure to bellamy or some shit like that......... so he "cares" for bellamy and thats why he "couldnt" run him over......

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    • Myheartisskippingbeats wrote:
      i think the writers are trying(but failing sooooo miserably) to paint kane seeing himself as something of a father figure to bellamy or some shit like that......... so he "cares" for bellamy and thats why he "couldnt" run him over......

      If that was their goal, all they did was turn Kane into a terrible father, neglecting all his other children for his "favorite" (Bellamy) whose life is "worth more" than theirs (Harper and Miller and even Octavia).

      This whole season seems like a huge, undeserved, congratulatory pat on the back. In memory of the love Bellamy once had for mythology (because this current version of Bellamy seems to be ignoring all his history lessons), like Icarus, JR flew too close to the sun and burned the whole show down. Javi G-M said it best: the writers were "naive enough – or arrogant enough – to believe that . . . our ability as writers would superate/redeem our use of the trope.” JR's hubris killed the plot.

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    • i mean, no, the plot is ok, it just needs A LOT of work..... like, imagine having this streched on 22-23 episodes.... i guess then it would be somewhat a little better..... the rushing and not explaining enough is what is wrong this season.....

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    • Not just "rushing" but shoving characters and subplots in where they don't even remotely belong, creating subplots that make little logical sense but then are used to prop up the main plot, and either giving little to no character development or having characters instantaneously "develop" into completely different characters.

      That's bad writing.

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    • Skyzy wrote: Not just "rushing" but shoving characters and subplots in where they don't even remotely belong, creating subplots that make little logical sense but then are used to prop up the main plot, and either giving little to no character development or having characters instantaneously "develop" into completely different characters.

      That's bad writing.

      Who knows? Maybe they will do pregnancy scenes. Like A.L.I.E. harvested genetic material to make better humans. That would be a horrible plot.

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    • Now that you mention pregnancy, who was it, was it you Skyzy who mentioned that probably after Lincoln's death we will learn that Octavia is pregnant? Which, if it's true, helps the overall plot how exactly!? 

      The child will be the new link between Skaikru and the Grounders? But why would the Grounders give a damn? After all Lincoln was rejected by both parties, more or less just like Octavia...

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    • It was half-joking at first that they're going to kill Lincoln and reveal Octavia is pregnant to up the wangst and then have her give birth to a Nightblood.

      Now, I just hope she's pregnant because his legacy needs to remain in that world if there is to be any hope for it and it's poetic justice to have Lincoln "remembered" after he's dead (not that anyone besides Jasper remembers anybody after they die).

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    • Do you think Octavia would be a good mother?

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    • As long as she stops being abusive to POC, I think she would make a fine mother.

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    • I think she would had to so she can be a good role model.

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    • To whom?

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    • If Octavia was pregnant and she gave birth to a baby. She would need to be a role model.

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    • Yeah, but to the audience or to her child or to the Sky people, maybe to the Grounders??? Or to all??? But then again giving birth doesn't equal becoming a good mother. One SHOULD become one, but it doesn't mean she has to be... She could get in line behind Nia or even Abby and be a pretty bad mother, cos, why not???

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    • You make a good point. Some aren't meant to be parents.

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    • Agreed.

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    • I am not discriminating or calling people inhuman because they don't want children. It's that they are more then happy to have a house pet.

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    • Am I the only one who's a little shocked by the idea that Octavia is pregnant?

      Yes, i like the idea that his [Lincoln's] legacy remains in the world, but ehm, how old was Octavia again?

      And I honstley don't think that Grounders / Sky People will stop hating on each other just because of one kid, whose parents - btw - where outsiders in both. I can't really warm up to that thought, so if Octavia really is pregnant I'd get crazy.

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    • "Just a theory." 

      "Clarke will be next Commander."

      "Lexa is not dead."

      and etc. Theres too many unanswered questions.

      Like I said = "Just a theroy" 

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    • I would see a pregnant Octavia maybe A.L.I.E will protect her.

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    • Unicornpotato wrote:
      Am I the only one who's a little shocked by the idea that Octavia is pregnant?

      Yeah, probably. It's been speculated forever by fans that she might be pregnant this season (and part of the reason everyone kept asking about contraception over hiatus).

      By now, she's 18 or close to 18 but...age being a problem? Come on, what show are you watching?? I don't think it would unite the Grounders/Sky People (because JR hates Ricky Whittle too much for that) but most people still DO want her pregnant simply for Lincoln's legacy.

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    • I cannot comment on the pregnancy, might happen, might not, age doesn't matter, not in that universe (or it seems like it) 

      but on the "Clarke becomes the new commander" umm was it only me who was looking for clues in the Flame "room" or whatever it was called, for any leftover nightblood capsules, so Clarke could start injecting herself, hence becoming a worthy opponent of Ontari, plus she might survive the Flame is she wins... 

      but then again, if that would actually be the storyline, that kinda destroys the show, as that could be the ultimate solution to all Grounder - Skaikru problem which would get rid of the tension that the show builds upon.. or then suddenly a new alien species/threat shows up and the new Heda Clarke, has to save her ppl(the Gounders + the Sky ppl) and to reveal the blueprints of a weapon that can destroy the new enemy she has to tap into the knowledge of the previous Commanders, which leads to "drumroll" Lexa! or maybe reconstruct her physically like in the Fifth Element or in Mass Effect, they could definitely make this series more "sci-fi-y" endless options to bring her back... ahh but sorry I got a little bit carried away, yeah I know, I know, if they'd go thru with that, that'd mean all the previous dead characters are fair game and could be brought back any time... come to think of that, someone could always destroy for one reason or another the machine or whatevs that makes the resurrection possible..

      I'm gonna stop now, sorry, still too attached to Lexa, and Lincoln's end didn't help...

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    • If you didn't bring that up, the theorie of Octavia being pregnant would have never crossed my mind at all and TBH, i would definitely not go there if i were the runner or writers... Don't think it would be interesting or good for the plot development at this point. It would kind of ruin Octavia's badass character and the chance of revenge which she will most likely go after, now Lincoln's dead.

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    • Fleshcer wrote:
      "Just a theory." "Clarke will be next Commander."

      "Lexa is not dead."

      and etc. Theres too many unanswered questions.

      Like I said = "Just a theroy" 

      IMO there's actually a very strong possibility that Clarke, like Becca, will implant herself with the chip. This could easily be how Clarke ends up in the COL meeting Lexa. She would also become the next Commander, which would actual make sense, based on several things we've heard specially throughout this season.

      I also think that depending on how things will play out in the season finale, or whichever episode Lexa will appear again in the COL, there's also a very strong possibility that at some point in the future, who knows maybe season 4, they bring Lexa back again with some purpose.

      This is the beauty of The 100, specially now with all of this AI and advanced technology surfacing, anything is possible. The future developments of the storyline are totally unpredictable at this point, specially for season 4, there are infinite possibilities, and huge potential!

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    • Show addict wrote:
       It would kind of ruin Octavia's badass character and the chance of revenge which she will most likely go after, now Lincoln's dead.

      Pregnant women can't be badass??? Have you ever met a pregnant woman?

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    • Redlion14 wrote:

      but on the "Clarke becomes the new commander" umm was it only me who was looking for clues in the Flame "room" or whatever it was called, for any leftover nightblood capsules, so Clarke could start injecting herself, hence becoming a worthy opponent of Ontari, plus she might survive the Flame is she wins...

      We still have no idea how the black blood works and if there is even any correlation between ALIE 2.0 and the black blood (i.e. some sort of AI component in the blood). So, Clarke might not need the black blood (no one might need black blood). Also, Clarke is "genetically engineered" so maybe even though she doesn't have black blood, she could still have the AI components (if they go that route on the show).

      I'm honestly really waiting for their answer on how the black blood is passed on because it's night like any of the Nightbloods live long enough to procreate.

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    • Skyzy wrote:
      Show addict wrote:
       It would kind of ruin Octavia's badass character and the chance of revenge which she will most likely go after, now Lincoln's dead.
      Pregnant women can't be badass??? Have you ever met a pregnant woman?

      That's not at all what i meant, maybe i didn't explain myself very well.

      What i meant is that on the show they're constantly at war and she's a warrior, who at the moment is grieving, deeply in pain, and will for sure want and seek revenge. If she were to be pregnant, all this potential storyline for her character would have to take a different direction, at least for now, 'cause she wouldn't wanna risk her pregnancy, i suppose.

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    • Skyzy wrote:
      Redlion14 wrote:
      but on the "Clarke becomes the new commander" umm was it only me who was looking for clues in the Flame "room" or whatever it was called, for any leftover nightblood capsules, so Clarke could start injecting herself, hence becoming a worthy opponent of Ontari, plus she might survive the Flame is she wins...
      We still have no idea how the black blood works and if there is even any correlation between ALIE 2.0 and the black blood (i.e. some sort of AI component in the blood). So, Clarke might not need the black blood (no one might need black blood). Also, Clarke is "genetically engineered" so maybe even though she doesn't have black blood, she could still have the AI components (if they go that route on the show).

      I'm honestly really waiting for their answer on how the black blood is passed on because it's night like any of the Nightbloods live long enough to procreate.

      I totally agree, i think Clarke doesn't need the black blood 'cause she, like all Skykru, was genetically engineered.

      I really think the black blood is a gene that's genetically passed on throughout generations, and in some people it manifests and so they have black blood, and it doesn't on the others, so they have normal blood. This is my theorie, biological it makes sense.

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    • ok, i gotta ask:

      1) where was it stated that skaikru was genetacly engeneered???

      2) how about a theory that black blood has something to do with radiation.... i mean, why did becca inject herself with that??? to survive the radiation or to be able to have the flame?

      3) SERIOUSLY, HOW DO YOU GET MORE NIGHTBLOODS IF THEY KILL EACH OTHER???

      4) so luna is a leader of the boat people and also a nightblood that fled and was shamed..... ok, i am just gonna stop here and wait fo some explanation.....

      5) who was the flamekeeper before titus

      6) emori..... seriously, whre is she....

      7) so roan is now ontaris bitch or something i mean she is not really above him....

      8) what the actual fuck happened to the blocade, they went on vacation or something??

      ok, some of my theories and wishes:

      1) luna dies or is dead

      ok thats it for now.... the finale i think the best possible twist they could make is to make clarke sacrifice herself for lexa and send lexas mind to clarkes body.... think about it, clarke waking up in bellamys hands and abby, kane and monty all around her and shes like oh no, clarke, what did you do......

      but thats not how i would have done it.... no, i would make titus have a plan to save lexas body and then put the ai chip back in her, like preserving the body and then putting just her mind back in.... or something like that, i dont know, im still procesing lincoln dying.....

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    • technically they haven't showed us the lit pyre of Lexa, so her body could still somehow be saved/preserved, but who the heck would do that!? Clarke would be the only one and she is now on her mission as the new Flamekepa as if that title is so easily transferrable. 

      Titus: it's all about shouldering the responsibility, raising a bunch of kids and acting cool is only part of the perks coming with it...

      like how on Earth was it so easy to pass the responsibility to Clarke? what about the knowledge, isn't that supposed to be about as important, or everything is in the diary, so only the protection of the chip and the (un)installation of it matters, as anybody can learn to fight or lead or counsel...

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    • Ok so these are my theories and answers to your questions Myheartisskippingbeats:

      1) I think back in season 1 they talked about that, 'cause they needed to be genetically modified/improved, to be able to survive in space, to solar radiation. That's why the radiation didn't / doesn't affect them, even though they weren't on earth for all that time.

      2) Black blood is the result of the treatment that Becca created to survive radiation, that's why she injected herself before coming down to earth, 'cause she wasn't genetically engineered and the levels of radiation were really high at that point as we saw.

      3) Like i explained in my theorie on my other post, i think it's genetically passed on throughout generations.

      4) What you said is pretty accurate and all we know so far.

      5) No one knows yet, and honestly don't know if they will go there, don't think so at least not right now.

      6) Out of the picture for the moment i guess, not relevant for the storyline right now.

      7) As unworthy Heda she actually is above him, 'cause she is the leader of all the Clans, including Azgeda.

      8) They didn't address that, but i think it's implicit that it was called off for the moment, since Lexa died, until there's a new Heda. But you made me laugh with the 'went on vacation' line! lol

      As for your theories, particularly the one about Clarke and Lexa, that would be totally fucked up, to say the least and a major twist! xD 

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    • 1) In Coup de Grace when they discover Emerson has Arker blood, Clarke says "we were genetically engineered; they weren't." (Or something like that. Too lazy to look up the exact quote.)

      2) It has been assumed that the black blood has to do with radiation but nothing explicitly stated in canon (yet).

      3) As Show Addict said, the only possibility is that it's a recessive gene, meaning parents might not have any Nightblood children but their grandchildren might possibly have it. It still doesn't answer the question how this was disseminated into the local population. Did Becca use the remaining syringes to randomly inject Grounders? And how does this work in only a 95-year time-span (since Becca came down two years after the apocalypse)?

      4) The whole Luna thing is such a far stretch. I would normally be willing to suspend my disbelief on this point but with the way everything else has happened this season, it seems almost as forced as Bellamy's character arc. I also hope she's dead/dies because I don't care about Luna any more. I was only interested in how she interacts with Lincoln and Lexa.

      5) Flamekeeper before Titus.... Good question but I doubt they'll ever answer this.

      6) Emori, I honestly don't care about her. I don't dislike her but I prefer Murphy on his own.

      7) Roan makes no sense. He was on Lexa's side, then Nia's, then Lexa's, now Ontari's.

      8) The blockade seems like such a forgotten yet necessary plot point. It should have been put in place after they first massacred the warriors and now it's in place, it seems to not even be a problem?

      My wish for the Season Three Finale:
      End scene has Murphy waking up on the couch in ALIE's mansion a la 3x01 and her telling Murphy "See? That's why we need you: to stop what's about to happen." And now Murphy has to go save the world...again. So he does it begrudgingly in a semi-time-travel, semi-groundhog-day type redo of Season Three, this time with Murphy as our reluctant hero stopping the bad crap from going down because...I don't know, saving Lexa is the key to saving the world (easy enough assumption). As Murphy tries to stop the "bad" future from happening, they can even re-use tons of footage from this season so it's not a complete waste.

      That means Lincoln can still live, let's just pretend Gina never existed (maybe replace her with Mel) and Bellamy never went nuts, Monroe is still alive, Abby was never turned into an incompetent nitwit, Pike never gained control of Arkadia, Octavia never became a chronic POC abuser, Monty was able to get over his mommy issues without putting anyone else in danger, Jasper was able to get medical help, and Nyko and Jackson form a special partnership and friendship as they open the Mount Weather Medical Facility for Grounders and Sky People alike. Also, Lincoln lives.

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    • Skyzy wrote:

      My wish for the Season Three Finale:
      End scene has Murphy waking up on the couch in ALIE's mansion a la 1x01 and her telling Murphy "See? That's why we need you: to stop what's about to happen." And now Murphy has to go save the world...again. So he does it begrudgingly in a semi-time-travel, semi-groundhog-day type redo of Season Three, this time with Murphy as our reluctant hero stopping the bad crap from going down because...I don't know, saving Lexa is the key to saving the world (easy enough assumption). As Murphy tries to stop the "bad" future from happening, they can even re-use tons of footage from this season so it's not a complete waste.

      That means Lincoln can still live, let's just pretend Gina never existed (maybe replace her with Mel) and Bellamy never went nuts, Monroe is still alive, Abby was never turned into an incompetent nitwit, Pike never gained control of Arkadia, Octavia never became a chronic POC abuser, Monty was able to get over his mommy issues without putting anyone else in danger, Jasper was able to get medical help, and Nyko and Jackson form a special partnership and friendship as they open the Mount Weather Medical Facility for Grounders and Sky People alike. Also, Lincoln lives.

      I totally support that option for the Season 3 finale, that would be so awesome, all that awful things wouldn't have actually happen yet, so they were preventable.

      Best part of all that, we could have Lexa and Lincoln back, easily. Let's suggest it to JR, would be a mind blowing plot twist for sure!

      The only problem i see there is... That seems more like an action and worrie of ALIE 2.0, to prevent all that, rather than ALIE 1.0, and she's the one Murphy met back in ALIE's mansion.

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    • "Save the cheerleader, save the world"

      but tbh sometimes I have the feeling that after they've aired an ep the writer quickly try to come up with the next ep before it's time to air it... like the whole thing feels rushed, incomplete, inconsequential and the list goes on and on.

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    • Redlion14 wrote:
      "Save the cheerleader, save the world"

      but tbh sometimes I have the feeling that after they've aired an ep the writer quickly try to come up with the next ep before it's time to air it... like the whole thing feels rushed, incomplete, inconsequential and the list goes on and on.

      They ended filming season 3 finale back in January, if i'm not mistaken, so that's not the case for sure.

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    • I know that's not the case, it just feels like it, cos the storyline is so bad in almost every sense.

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    • Skyzy wrote:

      Show addict wrote:
       It would kind of ruin Octavia's badass character and the chance of revenge which she will most likely go after, now Lincoln's dead.

      Pregnant women can't be badass??? Have you ever met a pregnant woman?

      I am afaid of angry pregnant women. Guys who are like a Hulk are afaid of pregnant women. If you don't think pregnant women can't be badass character then you have not met a pregnant women. They are worse when they give birth and protective over their children.

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    • Show addict wrote:

      The only problem i see there is... That seems more like an action and worrie of ALIE 2.0, to prevent all that, rather than ALIE 1.0, and she's the one Murphy met back in ALIE's mansion.

      ALIE 1.0 already knew of ALIE 2.0's existence; she just didn't know where so she was looking for it in all the tech. I can write a hundred different reasons for ALIE 1.0 to want to prevent S3 from happening (besides it being crappy writing), especially since her end goal has always been "to make life better." Depending on what happens on the back half of this season, that can have different meanings and Murphy might still find himself battling not only a bleak future but also ALIE 1.0's ultimate goal. Just as Raven fighting against the CoL pill, Murphy fights against ALIE's "purpose" for him.

      Imagine Murphy as a Cassandra voice, trying to convince everyone to listen to him but no one will believe him so he has to go by other means to thwart the "bad" timeline.

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    • Dragonfly82 wrote:

      Skyzy wrote:

      Show addict wrote:
       It would kind of ruin Octavia's badass character and the chance of revenge which she will most likely go after, now Lincoln's dead.
      Pregnant women can't be badass??? Have you ever met a pregnant woman?

      I am afaid of angry pregnant women. Guys who are like a Hulk are afaid of pregnant women. If you don't think pregnant women can't be badass character then you have not met a pregnant women. They are worse when they give birth and protective over their children.

      Again, as i explained to Skyzy right after writing that, that's not the point of what i meant.

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    • Show addict wrote:

      Again, as i explained to Skyzy right after writing that, that's not the point of what i meant.

      I think at this point, we're all in agreement that pregnant women are super badass. :D

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    • Good.

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    • Skyzy wrote:
      Show addict wrote:

      The only problem i see there is... That seems more like an action and worrie of ALIE 2.0, to prevent all that, rather than ALIE 1.0, and she's the one Murphy met back in ALIE's mansion.

      ALIE 1.0 already knew of ALIE 2.0's existence; she just didn't know where so she was looking for it in all the tech. I can write a hundred different reasons for ALIE 1.0 to want to prevent S3 from happening (besides it being crappy writing), especially since her end goal has always been "to make life better." Depending on what happens on the back half of this season, that can have different meanings and Murphy might still find himself battling not only a bleak future but also ALIE 1.0's ultimate goal. Just as Raven fighting against the CoL pill, Murphy fights against ALIE's "purpose" for him.

      Imagine Murphy as a Cassandra voice, trying to convince everyone to listen to him but no one will believe him so he has to go by other means to thwart the "bad" timeline.


      I should probably also add that ALIE 1.0 is presumably going to be destroyed in this season's finale so that right there is a good enough reason why she wants to prevent this timeline from occurring.

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    • Will Octavia have a son or daughter or twins of both?

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    • Dragonfly82 wrote:
      Will Octavia have a son or daughter or twins of both?

      ALL of the Linctavia fanfic I've ever read, they have a daughter first (which I would consider fanon canon). It's only the fanfics where they're the side-pairings to either Bellarke or Clexa that it deviates from this (which I would not consider fanon canon) but even then, the majority still have them with a daughter first.

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    • Skyzy wrote:

      Dragonfly82 wrote:
      Will Octavia have a son or daughter or twins of both?

      ALL of the Linctavia fanfic I've ever read, they have a daughter first (which I would consider fanon canon). It's only the fanfics where they're the side-pairings to either Bellarke or Clexa that it deviates from this (which I would not consider fanon canon) but even then, the majority still have them with a daughter first.

      Fanficion is not canon. If she has a son I think she would name him Lincoln Junior after his father.

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    • Dragonfly82 wrote:

      Fanficion is not canon. If she has a son I think she would name him Lincoln Junior after his father.

      Well, considering it's unlikely she's even pregnant (because JR probably wouldn't even give Linctavia fans that scrap), it's all speculation anyway.

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    • Skyzy wrote:
      Dragonfly82 wrote:
      Fanficion is not canon. If she has a son I think she would name him Lincoln Junior after his father.
      Well, considering it's unlikely she's even pregnant (because JR probably wouldn't even give Linctavia fans that scrap), it's all speculation anyway.


      I can't disagree with the JR statement, but still, why would Octavia get pregnant? I mean, as a plot development it would only cause issues with her appearance on the show, lack of action so she doesn't lose the baby and 7 months to give birth (If JR went along with it and didn't kill the baby, stripping O of yet another loved one (Her mom -> Lincoln -> Bellamy now that she'll blame him from Lincoln's death)) and let's not forget the time period for her to recover, be back on her feet and train into the physical state she is in. I am all in for a Linctavia baby, but in the plot it seems unlikely they'll bench Octavia like that.


      Also, I saw an article saying that the Lincoln death doesn't move along the plot? Is there anyone here who agrees with that cuz I am 100% disagreeing! 

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    • JR said that someone would be pregnant in S3, but it won't be Clarke or Octavia.


      And, i know it's usual like this in TV shows/movies/books, why does everyone want to name their kids after their dead parents / relatives? I mean somehow you will always be reminded by that. The kid will be expected to be just like the dead one. If Octavia is pregnant and if she gets a son i'd be okay with Lincoln as a second name, but not as a first one.


      I rather see the point that a pregnancy takes up to 9 monthes (she would be pregnant for a while now) and we've seen like 5 months in all up til now (with the 3 month break between season 2 and 3). So even if Octavia would be pregnant, we would need like a fifth season to see the baby, lol.


      Lincoln's death was useless,pointless and just stupid. I agree that his death was more or less 'okay written' into the story (the hero that sacrafices hisself for his people - has been done before, so that was OK), BUT I also agree that Lincoln himself didn't move along the plot anymore. He just spent episodes and episodes in jail or being gone or doing nothing plot worthy. So technically his dead didn't move along the plot either. 

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    • Unicornpotato wrote:
      JR said that someone would be pregnant in S3, but it won't be Clarke or Octavia.


      And, i know it's usual like this in TV shows/movies/books, why does everyone want to name their kids after their dead parents / relatives? I mean somehow you will always be reminded by that. The kid will be expected to be just like the dead one. If Octavia is pregnant and if she gets a son i'd be okay with Lincoln as a second name, but not as a first one.


      I rather see the point that a pregnancy takes up to 9 monthes (she would be pregnant for a while now) and we've seen like 5 months in all up til now (with the 3 month break between season 2 and 3). So even if Octavia would be pregnant, we would need like a fifth season to see the baby, lol.


      Lincoln's death was useless,pointless and just stupid. I agree that his death was more or less 'okay written' into the story (the hero that sacrafices hisself for his people - has been done before, so that was OK), BUT I also agree that Lincoln himself didn't move along the plot anymore. He just spent episodes and episodes in jail or being gone or doing nothing plot worthy. So technically his dead didn't move along the plot either. 

      REALLY?! Ha! I'd heard that one in relations to Bell. (Some speculated that Gina was the pregnant one.) But then again whose left? Abby? Raven? I don't see it. Indra doesn't seem to be in a relationship, Lexa is clearly dead, Monty's mom again I don't see it, A.L.I.E. is a program, Ontari doesn't look the part, Emori? Maybe. She could be. Harper? Again I can say maybe, but I see no boyfriend. So who's left? Luna?


      If Octavia was pregnant she could have named it Lincoln, you know, cuz naming someone after someone great signifies that they might turn out to be like the people they were named after. (in the parent's head.) So, it could happen. But again, Octavia Blake pregnant seems unecessary. If Marie has a reason to stay on the sidelines and do a few episodes in a season that might have been a good plot, but now, I don't think it's going to happen. Or season 4 will hit a new flashforward record!


      Come on! No one sees that he is the breaking point for the Blake siblings? Remember the season trailer where Octavia punches Bell until he bleeds badly? He is clearly the reason Octavia finally and for the first time ever denies having a brother. Lincoln's death is the reason Octavia will either hit full-Grounder mode or just abandone Skaikru, the latter is almost certain. Marie said in an interview "Their [Octavia and Bell's] relationship will never be the same". Lincoln became a symbol of hope for the grounders and the Skaikru mdedding fences (how? Nobody knows) and the reason Octavia who looked on good terms with Bell on episode 3 will finally abandon her brother's side for good!

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    • 46.103.80.13 wrote:
      Skyzy wrote:
      Dragonfly82 wrote:
      Fanficion is not canon. If she has a son I think she would name him Lincoln Junior after his father.
      Well, considering it's unlikely she's even pregnant (because JR probably wouldn't even give Linctavia fans that scrap), it's all speculation anyway.

      I can't disagree with the JR statement, but still, why would Octavia get pregnant? I mean, as a plot development it would only cause issues with her appearance on the show, lack of action so she doesn't lose the baby and 7 months to give birth (If JR went along with it and didn't kill the baby, stripping O of yet another loved one (Her mom -> Lincoln -> Bellamy now that she'll blame him from Lincoln's death)) and let's not forget the time period for her to recover, be back on her feet and train into the physical state she is in. I am all in for a Linctavia baby, but in the plot it seems unlikely they'll bench Octavia like that.


      Also, I saw an article saying that the Lincoln death doesn't move along the plot? Is there anyone here who agrees with that cuz I am 100% disagreeing! 

      Thank you, that's exactly what i was thinking and meant when i said what i said about Octavia being pregnant would kind of ruin her badass character, i just felt too lazy to explain all this at the moment.

      The most correct term wasn't ruin her character, i meant that her pregnancy would completely bench Octavia and i definitely don't want that to happen.

      I like her too much in the story to see that happening!

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    • TheDragonair wrote:
      Come on! No one sees that he is the breaking point for the Blake siblings? Remember the season trailer where Octavia punches Bell until he bleeds badly? He is clearly the reason Octavia finally and for the first time ever denies having a brother. Lincoln's death is the reason Octavia will either hit full-Grounder mode or just abandone Skaikru, the latter is almost certain. Marie said in an interview "Their [Octavia and Bell's] relationship will never be the same". Lincoln became a symbol of hope for the grounders and the Skaikru mdedding fences (how? Nobody knows) and the reason Octavia who looked on good terms with Bell on episode 3 will finally abandon her brother's side for good!

      Speaking as a Lincoln fan, he did nothing worthwhile this season, not even sacrifice himself for the Grounders, because how much do you want to bet Pike is going to kill them anyway? Besides, the plot was already written BEFORE Ricky was forced off the show so there won't be much more influence of Lincoln's death than probably Octavia beating up Bellamy (making this the third POC she's taken upon herself to beat into submission).

      Most people hoped it was Indra who Bellamy got killed because that would make it less "shippy" and wangsty. It could have also been for Bellamy massacring those 300 warriors. I'm surprised she (and everyone else) didn't even seem to care? In fact, that was probably the original story: Octavia would disown her brother for that, but then JR forced Ricky to quit and got himself a nice new reason for the beat-down.

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    • Skyzy wrote:

      Speaking as a Lincoln fan, he did nothing worthwhile this season, not even sacrifice himself for the Grounders, because how much do you want to bet Pike is going to kill them anyway? Besides, the plot was already written BEFORE Ricky was forced off the show so there won't be much more influence of Lincoln's death than probably Octavia beating up Bellamy (making this the third POC she's taken upon herself to beat into submission).

      Most people hoped it was Indra who Bellamy got killed because that would make it less "shippy" and wangsty. It could have also been for Bellamy massacring those 300 warriors. I'm surprised she (and everyone else) didn't even seem to care? In fact, that was probably the original story: Octavia would disown her brother for that, but then JR forced Ricky to quit and got himself a nice new reason for the beat-down.

      Ok, aside getting beat up by Pike fanatics, I agree he was pretty much a peace keeper rather than a warrior (I see a third Finn. Wow the guy has left an impression on me and I barely liked him!) 


      Huh! Really? If the idea for the Blake siblings disowning was written before hand then I agree! Lincoln death only gave the character a great exit (compared to others). Other than that... nothing!

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    • TheDragonair wrote:
      Lincoln death only gave the character a great exit (compared to others). Other than that... nothing!

      I agree with pretty much everything else you said except this part. Lincoln's death was not a great exit. It was deeply disturbing, profoundly offensive, and highly triggering. Suicide hotlines are being floated around on tumblr again and people have been relapsing once more (many of whom weren't as affected by Lexa's death). Lexa's death was yet another fulfillment of a negative trope; Lincoln's death reflects daily reality for POC in America. Both were terribly mishandled in a very irresponsible manner, leading to damaging consequences on an already at-risk audience after baiting in these same fans by touting their "progressive representation."

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    • Skyzy wrote:

      I agree with pretty much everything else you said except this part. Lincoln's death was not a great exit. It was deeply disturbing, profoundly offensive, and highly triggering. Suicide hotlines are being floated around on tumblr again and people have been relapsing once more (many of whom weren't as affected by Lexa's death). Lexa's death was yet another fulfillment of a negative trope; Lincoln's death reflects daily reality for POC in America. Both were terribly mishandled in a very irresponsible manner, leading to damaging consequences on an already at-risk audience after baiting in these same fans by touting their "progressive representation."

      Lincoln died a martyr's death for his beliefs. That's what I saw. How is this POC related? If a white guy killed Lincoln sure they have every right to talk about injustice and promote the white guys get away with it while black people die. But Pike is also POC and frankly Michael and Ricky have done an amazing job with their characters. They represent the different sides of the world. That in a world where race, sexuality, color or gender don't matter, two black guys can be on different sides with different beliefs but with a common goal (even in Pike's twisted mind) to save their people the way they see fit. In Lincoln's case it was both about the Grounders and the Skaikru (the people he'd spend months getting to know and making them his friends) showing that they CAN coexist. Racism is only happening in the eyes of those who can't see past the color and stare at a tree unable to see a forest. The death wasn't the best they could have given him, but at least it wasn't the worst!

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    • TheDragonair wrote:
      How is this POC related? If a white guy killed Lincoln sure they have every right to talk about injustice and promote the white guys get away with it while black people die. But Pike is also POC and frankly Michael and Ricky have done an amazing job with their characters.

      Eek! Uh, let me point you to a couple of links to catch up. Sparkstoaflame wrote a blog post on both Lexa's and Lincoln's death that is worth a read-through and includes further links for reading. The one I feel best sums it up is this tumblr post:

      "Meanwhile, over on the 100, not only are they having another black man holding the gun, feeding into the Black on Black trope despite the fact that Pike is supposed to be an allegory of post 9/11 bigotry against Muslims (which ???? but whatever) – the show deliberately sensationalizes Lincoln’s death. His hands are shackled, the gun goes off, everything is in slow motion, in graphic detail, and his body is filmed from above, splayed out, bleeding out in the mud from his head. 

      Did we need to see that? Why not just cut to Octavia’s horrified reaction? Why did we need to see that level of detail? Do they not realize how harmful that image is, of a helpless (PEACEFUL) black man on his knees being shot execution style by an authority figure? In the world we live in, THAT is the image they decided to go with. And multiple people signed off on that- from the director to the showrunner to the studios."

      ...

      "There is a visceral reaction to seeing a black man, shot in the head, while chained, kneeling in mud, that you can only truly understand if you are black. It is a call back to the Slave days, the Civil Rights Era and even worse a call back to today. To Jordan Dunn, just listening to his music, Mike Brown with his hands up, Trayvon Martin, walking home with his tea and skittles, Freddie Gray in the back of a police van and Jamar Clarke, who was just trying to get help for his girlfriend. 

      Please stop telling minorities who are reacting to things that actually affect them in real life that the way they react is wrong. Please do not ignore our feelings and our words."

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    • Hope you don't hate or shoot the messenger but i gotta say this...

      I think that, specially since Lexa's death people are reading way to much into everything that happens, particularly the deaths. Of course we may like or dislike the lateste events, and think they were good or bad calls from JR and the writers, but i definitely think they didn't come from a negative place. They were all just creative decisions, and believe me i didn't enjoy some of them at all too. I'm a huge Lexa's fan, she was one of my all time favorite characters (and i whatch a lot of shows) i absolutely hated that she died and i am still very angry and trying to cope with the fact that she isn't on the show anymore, i really miss her, big time. I also like Lincoln very much and didn't like him dying too, not even a little bit.

      But most of all, we all know that one of the most amazing things about The 100 is that, as they made sure we all knew from the very beginning, it takes place in a world where sexuality, race, gender, and all kind of differences don't matter at all, and this is awesome and one of the things i love the most!

      Hereupon, of course we may not like some or a lot of the latest developments and maybe some that will happen yet this season, like we did / do on another shows, but in the end, i really think everyone should keep in mind they where just good or bad creative decisions (and not very thoughtful some of them), not bullying or coming from a negative place ones, with deliberate intention to ostracize characters or the fans.

      I'm very sorry if you feel a different way, but this is my honest opinion.

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    • Skyzy wrote:

      Eek! Uh, let me point you to a couple of links to catch up. Sparkstoaflame wrote a blog post on both Lexa's and Lincoln's death that is worth a read-through and includes further links for reading. The one I feel best sums it up is this tumblr post:

      OK, I stand corrected, I see the issue and frankly, I take it back. This is racistic and unprofessional and many other things I can't quite voice right now!

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    • Show addict wrote:

      But most of all, we all know that one of the most amazing things about The 100 is that, as they made sure we all knew from the very beginning, it takes place in a world where sexuality, race, gender, and all kind of differences don't matter at all, and this is awesome and one of the things i love the most!

      Hereupon, of course we may not like some or a lot of the latest developments and maybe some that will happen yet this season, like we did / do on another shows, but in the end, i really think everyone should keep in mind they where just good or bad creative decisions, not bullying or coming from a negative place ones, with deliberate intention to ostracize characters or the fans.

      I'm very sorry if you feel a different way, but this is my honest opinion.

      Buddy, let me tell you this first paragraph I've said so too and I agree with you. The 100 lives in another world where the rules of this reality don't apply, however it is a show people on this world see and yes, we expect to see things that we don't like, but it's one thing to promise something and do the opposite. The writers promised to build a good season 3 that would be worth the wait. Yet they failed us miserably. They managed to undermine the already undermined minorities and enrage a lot of people. Worst, they didn't especially JR take a stand when the Lexa issue blasted the media and the web, but three weeks after it happened. Worst a cosmetics company who advertises on the show said they don't support nor associate with it, yet people from inside that company and others who said similar things about others, don't pull their investsments. Everything ends up being capitalistic and that enrages people.

      I am a grey person. I try to excuse the writers for this miserable attempt to send of Lincoln, Lexa and their Bellamy development, but there is a point where the other side, the side of the people who expected more of the show and ended up being offended by it, has a right to be pissed of.

      So again, I agree with you, but people have a right to be upset about mishandling the show. The extend to Lexa's death and lesbian troupe took too extreme messures in my opinion, but I am not judging them. They felt betrayed.

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    • Show addict wrote: I think that, specially since Lexa's death people are reading way to much into everything that happens, particularly the deaths. Of course we may like or dislike the latest events, and think they were good or bad calls from JR and the writers, but i definitely think they didn't come from a negative place. They were all just creative decisions, and believe me i didn't enjoy some of them at all too. I'm a huge Lexa's fan, she was one of my all time favorite characters (and i watch a lot of shows) i absolutely hated that she died and i am still very angry and trying to cope with the fact that she isn't on the show anymore, i really miss her, big time. I also like Lincoln very much and didn't like him dying too, not even a little bit.

      "didn't come from a negative place. They were all just creative decisions"

      I have to ask, and no offence but, are you working for the 100??? Like those half sentences are almost literally the same what Jrot and the rest of the cast said at one point in their interviews... It's not funny, it's creepy... and I do understand it, but I this point I do not believe in a word Jrot says... not to mention that creative freedom is a terrible excuse for a crappy storyline filled with plotholes (just look at the thread we r writing in) and outrageous "plot twists"... no, just no, no more.

      I do love the show, and honestly I do not want it to be cancelled, but, they need to make changes, big ones, ones that matter.

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    • TheDragonair wrote:

      I am a grey person. I try to excuse the writers for this miserable attempt to send of Lincoln, Lexa and their Bellamy development, but there is a point where the other side, the side of the people who expected more of the show and ended up being offended by it, has a right to be pissed of.

      So again, I agree with you, but people have a right to be upset about mishandling the show. The extend to Lexa's death and lesbian troupe took too extreme messures in my opinion, but I am not judging them. They felt betrayed.

      I understand and pretty much agree with what you said there, apart from that part about they failing us miserably at building a seaosn 3 worth waiting for. I actually think they created a lot of interesting cool stuff and storylines that i liked to see and i am now curious to see how everything will play out in the upcoming episodes and in season 4.

      Apart from what i just said, of course people have the right to feel offended, betrayed or however they're feeling, i'm not judging at all.

      I totally can see where they're coming from, the thing is, i can also see where JR and the writers are coming from too. They may have made this bad, unthoughtful decisions, but i don't think they ever intended for things to go this south and completely off the rails. I mean it's obvious that no one wants more the show to be the most successful possible and loved by the fans, and to create a very positive impact, than it's creator, writers, cast and entire crew do.

      Believe me, i hated so much JR and the writers for killing Lexa, specially like that, when they had about a million other possible choices, but i couldn't help feeling kind of bad for him and actually the entire cast when they entered to initiate The 100 panel at WonderCon. There absolutely was an heavy atmosphere, 'cause they knew how angry and disappointed the majority of the fans where and it showed, they weren't as confortable as they usually are, specially JR... it wasn't a pleasant thing, at least for me, to see.

      As bad and unthoughtful they're creative decisons were, i really believe that's all they were, creative. I don't believe at all that when they killed Lexa they were like "so now we're gonna kill this lesbian character right after she had sex with her soul mate, in the most diminishing way possible, 'cause you know, now they're happy together we have to kill one of them has to go.", i think they saw it like "Alycia has to leave the show now, so we're gonna kill this great character in the most unexpected way, when everything felt good, for the drama effect. And as she is this major character, we'll go bigger and make her death this game-changing event that will move forward the entire show's story, by connecting everything."

      And as for Lincoln's death i don't also think they we're like "okay so we're gonna make the black guy that no one like kill the other black guy (and i don't even entirely see Ricky as a black guy), execution style, just because they're black."; i think they saw it like "we're gonna make this hated character to kill this other very much liked character, who is a great honorable warrior that never would have let anyone die for him, and that's why he stayed behind, willing to die for his beliefs. He will be executed like that, again for the drama effect (like all the shows do) by this Asshole Pike's character to make everyone hate him even more and for the other characters affected by his death to take action and seek revenge."

      I think that when they are making this creative decisions, which can turn out to be the best or the worst, they don't see the character sexuality, race, etc., they simply see the character and decide what will happen to take the storyline where they want to take. They see all the characters as equals, and they don't think twice about what to do with the character because she's gay or he's black, or whichever differences they may have. From my point of view this is the right thing to do, to treat a character differently because of her/his sexuality, gender, race or whichever, that would be the wrong thing to do.

      Suddenly everything that happened / happens with the plot line just became and brought up all this huge sensitive issues, and i just truly hope that all this won't make the show's creators, writters and producers, to be less willing to inclued diversified characters (like gays, black people, etc.), on their future shows, 'cause they know they won't have the creative freedom to put that characters through what they want / need to take the storyline where they want to take it. 

      Everything has been pushed way to the extreme like you said and IMO, so now there are all this very sensitive complicated issues mixed up that i won't even go into anymore.

      I don't even know at this point if i succeeded at explaining myself and my thoughts, i just hope i'm not misunderstood and people don't take what i said in the wrong way. I'm not judging, it was never my intention, it's just my honest opinion and the way i see things.

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    • TheDragonair wrote: " Worst a cosmetics company who advertises on the show said they don't support nor associate with it, yet people from inside that company and others who said similar things about others, don't pull their investments. Everything ends up being capitalistic and that enrages people."

      Could you elaborate on the quote? I get which company you're referring to, but sources? what happened, how do you know this? I wonder if the same is true for the rest of the sponsors who "officially" severed their ties with the show...

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    • Show addict wrote:
      I totally can see where they're coming from, the thing is, i can also see where JR and the writers are coming from too. They may have made this bad, unthoughtful decisions, but i don't think they ever intended for things to go this south and completely off the rails. I mean it's obvious that no one wants more the show to be the most successful possible and loved by the fans, and to create a very positive impact, than it's creator, writers, cast and entire crew do.

      This is the heart of the problem. JR has a job as a showrunner on a Network show. IT IS HIS JOB to think of these things. It is the Network's job to have oversight and make sure graphic and disturbing material against minorities is carefully weighed as appropriate to the story or gratuitous, unnecessary, and offensive to the audience (which is this entire season).

      Making bad, unthoughtful decisions is something I can forgive a high school student attempting to write their very first novel. It is not something I can excuse fully grown adults who have made it their career to be writers.

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    • Redlion14 wrote:
      TheDragonair wrote: " Worst a cosmetics company who advertises on the show said they don't support nor associate with it, yet people from inside that company and others who said similar things about others, don't pull their investments. Everything ends up being capitalistic and that enrages people."
      Could you elaborate on the quote? I get which company you're referring to, but sources? what happened, how do you know this? I wonder if the same is true for the rest of the sponsors who "officially" severed their ties with the show...

      I think this is in reference to Maybelline being the only sponsor to publicly comment on withdrawing their support of the show (but not the Network which they still sponsor). Most of the rest who pulled out probably won't say anything but rumor has it the show is down to only 1-2 sponsors now.

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    • Redlion14 wrote:

      "didn't come from a negative place. They were all just creative decisions"

      I have to ask, and no offence but, are you working for the 100??? Like those half sentences are almost literally the same what Jrot and the rest of the cast said at one point in their interviews... It's not funny, it's creepy... and I do understand it, but I this point I do not believe in a word Jrot says... not to mention that creative freedom is a terrible excuse for a crappy storyline filled with plotholes (just look at the thread we r writing in) and outrageous "plot twists"... no, just no, no more.

      I do love the show, and honestly I do not want it to be cancelled, but, they need to make changes, big ones, ones that matter. 

      Yup... you caught me there, i'm totally working for The 100. Actually i'm here right now with JR and some of the writers, we're going through all these comments and posts. They say hi!

      Maybe, just maybe, you should consider the possibility that people are different, we all see things in different ways, and not everyone has to go on this hating trip and disagree with every single thing that happens.

      As for the sentences i used, i wrote what i thought, if they are almost the same as some of the things JR and the rest of the cast said at some point, well maybe it's because they're true and i agree with them i don't know. What i do know is that people every now and then say similar things specially when they're talking about the same topics or issues.

      Perhaps you should read my other post explaining my opinion, probably would help you understand what i said. I think i made it pretty clear, many times, i didn't enjoy at all and i'm not okay with a lot of things that happened.

      Well gotta go now, some of the cast arrived, they say hi too!

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    • Show addict wrote:
      Redlion14 wrote:

      "didn't come from a negative place. They were all just creative decisions"

      I have to ask, and no offence but, are you working for the 100??? Like those half sentences are almost literally the same what Jrot and the rest of the cast said at one point in their interviews... It's not funny, it's creepy... and I do understand it, but I this point I do not believe in a word Jrot says... not to mention that creative freedom is a terrible excuse for a crappy storyline filled with plotholes (just look at the thread we r writing in) and outrageous "plot twists"... no, just no, no more.

      I do love the show, and honestly I do not want it to be cancelled, but, they need to make changes, big ones, ones that matter. 

      Yup... you caught me there, i'm totally working for The 100. Actually i'm here right now with JR and some of the writers, we're going through all these comments and posts. They say hi!

      Maybe, just maybe, you should consider the possibility that people are different, we all see things in different ways, and not everyone has to go on this hating trip and disagree with every single thing that happens.

      As for the sentences i used, i wrote what i thought, if they are almost the same as some of the things JR and the rest of the cast said at some point, well maybe it's because they're true and i agree with them i don't now. What i do now is that people every now and then say similar things specially when they're talking about the same topics or issues.

      Perhaps you should read my other post explaining my opinion, probably would help you understand what i said. I think i made it pretty clear, many times, i didn't enjoy at all and i'm not okay with a lot of things that happened.

      Well gotta go now, some of the cast arrived, they say hi too!

      Aww that's so nice of you, get some autographs for us! and tell the cast that they are the best!

      Nonetheless, I had to ask, cos u know with all the news/facts floating around about baiting and how ppl from the show tried to sway public opinion and create false hope... I know it's far fetched but one cannot be careful enough, better to be suspicious than hurt. 

      But you are right, out of all the fans there has to be a few who agree with some things that Jrot and the rest said in their defence. Still logically it does make sense to assume that if they used these methods beforehand why not use it again and send ppl to different social media platforms to mingle and eventually calm things down. I'm not accusing anybody, just saying it seems like a possibility...

      and I did read your comments here and there; and in general I do agree with you, but your wording threw me off balance. Anyhow, Diversity, makes life fun! ;)

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    • Redlion14 wrote:

      Aww that's so nice of you, get some autographs for us! and tell the cast that they are the best!

      Nonetheless, I had to ask, cos u know with all the news/facts floating around about baiting and how ppl from the show tried to sway public opinion and create false hope... I know it's far fetched but one cannot be careful enough, better to be suspicious than hurt. 

      But you are right, out of all the fans there has to be a few who agree with some things that Jrot and the rest said in their defence. Still logically it does make sense to assume that if they used these methods beforehand why not use it again and send ppl to different social media platforms to mingle and eventually calm things down. I'm not accusing anybody, just saying it seems like a possibility...

      and I did read your comments here and there; and in general I do agree with you, but your wording threw me off balance. Anyhow, Diversity, makes life fun! ;)

      I'm sensing that you're not yet entirely convinced that i don't work for The 100, but there's not much i can do about that. Just gotta say that it actually made me laugh, so thank you for that.

      What i can most definitely say is that i wish i worked for The 100, that would be fucking awesome!

      But see what i was saying? Things went so far to a point, that just because a person says good things about the show or empathizes and kind of understands the creator, writers or cast position, and it's not ready to crucify them, you immediately think that person must be working for the show too.

      Something is not right here!

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    • Show addict wrote:

      But see what i was saying? Things went so far to a point, that just because a person says good things about the show or empathizes and kind of understands the creator, writers or cast position, and it's not ready to crucify them, you immediately think that person must be working for the show too.

      Something is not right here!

      I couldn't agree more. Everyone is suspicious of everything. The fandom has been betrayed so badly that nothing can be taken at face value anymore. It's like we went on this 10-month long adventure to see the Emerald City and once we got there, Toto pulled back the curtain on the Wizard. Now that we know the game they play, we feel like we can't trust anyone no matter how genuine they might be.

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    • Skyzy wrote:

      I couldn't agree more. Everyone is suspicious of everything. The fandom has been betrayed so badly that nothing can be taken at face value anymore. It's like we went on this 10-month long adventure to see the Emerald City and once we got there, Toto pulled back the curtain on the Wizard. Now that we know the game they play, we feel like we can't trust anyone no matter how genuine they might be.

      I honestly never were suspicious about anyone anyhwere, it never even crossed my mind, but i also don't spend much time anywhere else reading fan's comments about the show. So i had no idea about all this alledged people who work for The 100 and are sent to different social media platforms to do damage control.

      But now i'm actually curious, did this really happened? Or are just suppositions and stuff some people said?

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    • Show addict wrote:
      I honestly never were suspicious about anyone anyhwere, it never even crossed my mind, but i also don't spend much time anywhere else reading fan's comments about the show. So i had no idea about all this alledged people who work for The 100 and are sent to different social media platforms to do damage control.

      But now i'm actually curious, did this really happened? Or are just suppositions and stuff some people said?

      I never really immersed myself in the fandom from anything more than an observational standpoint (and reading fanfic) but with the amount of research I've done for this wikia, I probably know more about what's going on in this fandom than the Network's own PR department and that goes the same for many of my fellow contributors. Over the last year, we've meticulously scoured social media sites and media articles for information, links, interviews, clips, references, etc....

      There are tons of hearsay and third-hand accounts and screenshots instead of direct links to source (oftentimes because the original source was purposefully removed). The rumors are rampant and there are trolls who purposefully put out false gossip to misdirect or further frustrate the fandom. Everything needs to be taken with a hefty grain of salt and the only constant is that the Network has remained silent (and JR gave a PR statement for the media where he apologized for nothing else except being a bad writer).

      Even the actors' true intentions have been (rightfully?) called into question because the fandom knows. It knows the PR tricks and it sees through them and won't accept anything less than a genuine apology and rectification of the problem before it becomes even worse (which it did with Lincoln's death).

      As to the LGBTQ Forum invasion, google Shawna Benson and Your Friendly Neighborhood Lurker for the "receipts."

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    • Wow... i had absolutely no idea of any of that. Thank you for all the explanation and info.

      Call me naive, but i really thought they would never go through that much trouble.

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    • Show addict wrote:
      Wow... i had absolutely no idea of any of that. Thank you for all the explanation and info.

      Call me naive, but i really thought they would never go through that much trouble.

      My reply got really long and off-topic so I posted it over here instead where it was more on-topic.

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    • Ok, so to sum it up, because I've missed a lot:

      Redlion14: Skyzy is right, I was referring to Maybelline. There are inside sources that say that the company announced that they weren't supporting the show BUT they haven't pulled their investment money. I don't know if it's true, but it sure sounds to me. Companies don't care about image of those they support over minor incidents like this. As long as people watch the show, as long as it has viewers and it fulfils its agreement with them, they have no issue. If something more extreme were to happen, they would have pulled the money. If you think like a capitalist for a second, it makes plenty sense

      Show addict: First the season was intriguing not worth waiting for. Like the article says they've left HUGE holes in the narrative and they are solving some of them through tweets? Come on! The show should at least have covered some. Bellamy's actions could have been very justifiable to the eyes of the audience at least, IF they'd shown us a little less ACTION Bellamy and more THOUGHTS-AND-FEELINGS Bellamy. JR made bad decisions and one writer that I know, the same writer who wrote the death of Lexa refuses to write again from the show and he is trying to distance himself from it. For example, when ADC talked on an interview on the Fear of the Walking Dead panel about her departure, someone raised a very good question either at an article or a comment under the video I can't remember exactly. Alycia is a new actress and she is a woman who lives inside an industry that's man-controlled still or worst producer controlled. She can't really voice a disdain without putting her career at risk. Why do you think big actors start talking about problems they had on set AFTER they become big shots? Even if Alycia wasn't pleased with this, she wasn't be able to say so for another decade or so. Maybe even later, depends on her career. Ricky and his mom from what I've gather from third-parties were infuriated with RJ about mishandling the actor. So, after you hear all this from actors and their relatives, even people associated with the show directly, you ought to be a bit suspicious of motives!

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    • TheDragonair wrote:
      Alycia is a new actress and she is a woman who lives inside an industry that's man-controlled still or worst producer controlled. She can't really voice a disdain without putting her career at risk. Why do you think big actors start talking about problems they had on set AFTER they become big shots? Even if Alycia wasn't pleased with this, she wasn't be able to say so for another decade or so.

      I've seen the same comment somewhere, I don't remember either, but it is very true. However, I do think she is handling it extremely well and manages to give answers which are thoughtful, considerate, sensitive, but not disrespectful to the show either. I'm guessing she will become a big shot sooner than we think.

      Nonetheless, somebody (Skyzy?) mentioned that the show is now down to only a few sponsors? That was quick, like a week ago, I think, it was only Maybelline who dropped the100 and since the fans didn't target specifically the sponsors with their tweets. Sooo I'm wondering if it happened partially due to Maybelline publicly taking a stand and partially due to the ongoing social media war? or was there something else that I've missed?

      Which reminds me, did you guys realize that there is a new article if not two basically every single day about this mess? I think that is pretty amazing. Like have you seen the response  of one of the executives of TVD? Perhaps change is in the air?

      "Julie Plec did apologize to fans for the decision to kill off the two lesbian Heretics. During her column with Entertainment Weekly[...] she said that the trope was one she and the writers were initially unaware of until recently. By this point, the story had been written, scenes had been shot, and there was no going back. She also defended the decision as on The Vampire Diaries there are very few characters that do stay alive; unless it is one of the main characters that dies and somehow comes back. However, she did go on to say that with this trope—something she should have found herself falling into with The Originals with the decision to kill Aiden in Season 2—and the discussion, it does encourage her to introduce more LGBT characters on the show and thanks the fans for raising awareness to the current problem on TV."

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    • Redlion14 wrote:

      Which reminds me, did you guys realize that there is a new article if not two basically every single day about this mess? I think that is pretty amazing. Like have you seen the response  of one of the executives of TVD? Perhaps change is in the air?

      "Julie Plec did apologize to fans for the decision to kill off the two lesbian Heretics. During her column with Entertainment Weekly[...] she said that the trope was one she and the writers were initially unaware of until recently. By this point, the story had been written, scenes had been shot, and there was no going back. She also defended the decision as on The Vampire Diaries there are very few characters that do stay alive; unless it is one of the main characters that dies and somehow comes back. However, she did go on to say that with this trope—something she should have found herself falling into with The Originals with the decision to kill Aiden in Season 2—and the discussion, it does encourage her to introduce more LGBT characters on the show and thanks the fans for raising awareness to the current problem on TV."

      About the sponsors, do we know that because they SAID that they retracted tbeir money or because they SAID that they don't support the show? This is like politics. Words are important and frankly, since the 100 is still a big deal since the Lexa is still drawing publicity I don't think anyone is backing off officially just yet. (Personal opinion)


      And no, sorry I haven't watched TVD ever, so I wouldn't have paid attention even if I bumped onto it. I know that Teen Wolf avoided killing gays. They killed the straight brother out of the twins, one of the newest black and gay secondary actor (guy who plays Mason) ended up *spoiler* being the big bad of the season *end of spoiler* and yet they managed to avoid killing him. Caity Lotz in Arrow was killed sure, but they brought her back and send her to a new show as a main character and adressed bisexuality/lesbians in the '50s. Even Revenge which did piss a few people off with the many seasons and neverending vendetta did make sure the best-friend of Emily/multibilionaire/bisexual survived and one of his gay love interest escaped his horrid mom and headed to train for an art career under a great mentor. Other shows did do a good job with their bisexuals/gays/lesbians. The 100 lack of attention to the subject especially since it was a period when Georgia was trying to enforce a gay marriage bill (if I am not wrong) after managing to vote in all states pro LGBT. Georgia gay bill was a huge thing that even caused studios to threaten to withdraw their productions on the area if it was voted "yes". So, the episode might had a less back lass and less attention if the circumstances were different.

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    • mentioned that the show is now down to only a few sponsors? That was quick, like a week ago, I think, it was only Maybelline who dropped the100 and since the fans didn't target specifically the sponsors with their tweets.

      i've heard that at least 4 or 5 sponsers since maybelline - no names - have since dropped out. don't quote me on that, though.

      About the sponsors, do we know that because they SAID that they retracted tbeir money or because they SAID that they don't support the show?

      maybelline, at least, said they agreed with a fan's argument in an email that they sent and that's why they're no longer advertising on the show. idk. the tweets are floating out there somewhere; you can find it if you do a little digging.

      Julie Plec did apologize

      lmao........sorry, but no. she did not.

      she's making the same excuse as JR has. it's the same old story: "we didn't know about the dead lesbian trope and we will endeavor to do better next time." um. no. i find that very difficult to believe that you didn't know about this trope. it's a trope for a reason: it's happened many times before in popular media. and as a showrunner, you are completely responsible for knowing about the toxic tropes and not falling into them. stop using that as an excuse, because that's all it is: an excuse.

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    • Sparkstoaflame wrote:
      mentioned that the show is now down to only a few sponsors? That was quick, like a week ago, I think, it was only Maybelline who dropped the100 and since the fans didn't target specifically the sponsors with their tweets.

      i've heard that at least 4 or 5 sponsers since maybelline - no names - have since dropped out. don't quote me on that, though.

      About the sponsors, do we know that because they SAID that they retracted tbeir money or because they SAID that they don't support the show?

      maybelline, at least, said they agreed with a fan's argument in an email that they sent and that's why they're no longer advertising on the show. idk. the tweets are floating out there somewhere; you can find it if you do a little digging.

      Julie Plec did apologize

      lmao........sorry, but no. she did not.

      she's making the same excuse as JR has. it's the same old story: "we didn't know about the dead lesbian trope and we will endeavor to do better next time." um. no. i find that very difficult to believe that you didn't know about this trope. it's a trope for a reason: it's happened many times before in popular media. and as a showrunner, you are completely responsible for knowing about the toxic tropes and not falling into them. stop using that as an excuse, because that's all it is: an excuse.

      A) Just because Maybelline said they don't advertize on the show doesn't mean they did. I said before I read an article that an insider of the company confirmed that maybelline DID NOT pull the money out of the show, no matter what they said. So, it might not be true, but it gets you thinking. A show that everyone is paying attention to because of the scandal that just happened advertizes your products and you pull it out the moment all eyes are on it? You wait a bit until you do that. And then you cut all ties with it. That's probably how they'd do it. So, just because someone announces publicly that they pull out it doesn't mean they did

      B) Producers are like politicians. You need to unravel the words layer by layer. So maybe she meant it maybe she didn't

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    • ? i know they didn't pull money out of the network, but the show...? i've heard they did.

      you pull it out the moment all eyes are on it?

      they pulled out 2 weeks before; it just didn't blow up until now.

      Producers are like politicians. You need to unravel the words layer by layer.

      given the huge backlash to The Lexa Issue (im just gonna call it that from now on; i'm talking about dead lesbians as a whole, fyi...) i would think that if plec did want to apologize she'd have made it crystal clear. there's no benefit to her "acting like a politician" having people try to mince and splice her words with all the...feelings going on now. that makes no sense.

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    • "Producers are like politicians. You need to unravel the words layer by layer.'"

      Same thing in all corporations, really. Same thing everywhere. There's too much liability involved nowadays when you specifically apologize for something so no one apologizes legitimately for anything because no one wants to be held accountable for their own wrong actions.

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    • Sparkstoaflame wrote:

      i would think that if plec did want to apologize she'd have made it crystal clear. there's no benefit to her "acting like a politician" having people try to mince and splice her words with all the...feelings going on now. that makes no sense.

      Most people don't see it. A producer HAS to apologize when he/she screwed up because it give the network a bad image. Also, both the 100 and TVD belong to The CW network, so if The 100 did something that might affect their longest and one of their most popular so (because Arrow and The Flash have clearly gained more popularity the last few years but TVD is still adn always be a classic), producers really don't want to piss the network off. A nework can pull the plug on a show just because. TVD is probably in the clear about that due to popularity but The 100 isn't.

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    • TheDragonair wrote:
      Also, both the 100 and TVD belong to The CW network, so if The 100 did something that might affect their longest and one of their most popular so (because Arrow and The Flash have clearly gained more popularity the last few years but TVD is still adn always be a classic), producers really don't want to piss the network off. A nework can pull the plug on a show just because. TVD is probably in the clear about that due to popularity but The 100 isn't.

      Don't forget Jane the Virgin where they also killed off LGBTQ a couple of weeks before Lexa's death. There's a saying about once is chance, twice is coincidence, three times is a pattern. Now tell me what that says about the Network?

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    • Skyzy wrote:

      Don't forget Jane the Virgin where they also killed off LGBTQ a couple of weeks before Lexa's death. There's a saying about once is chance, twice is coincidence, three times is a pattern. Now tell me what that says about the Network?

      Ok, to be fair, Rose was a crime lord and Louisa has a new love interest. And again, Legends of Tomorrow did a good job with Caity Lotz on the '50s episode.

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    • Also Crazy Ex-Girlfriend despite a few issues with excplicit content at some songs and themes, DID have a good development for their one male over 50 bisexual man. How he found out, coming to terms with it, announcing it proudly. It was a good job.

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    • Nah I still cannot interact with y'all, such a shame...

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    • Redlion14 wrote:
      Nah I still cannot interact with y'all, such a shame...

      You got it working momentarily at least. I think it's the link you were trying to post was being caught by Wikia's spam filter.

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    • WARNING ~ Spoilers for Arrow, do not read further if you haven't seen the latest episodes. (if you don't watch it, do what you want)


      Flash and Arrow are getting really good. I hope Arrow doesn't turn out like the 100 (killing off everyone), because after Laurel's death I feel like the showrunners might be thinking about taking a leaf out of JR's very unreliable book.

      All these deaths are just becoming the norm for this show. When Monroe died, I was in shock; she was one of my favorite characters. When Lexa died, I was also kind of surprised. I really have no opinion on her; I don't like her or dislike her. When Lincoln died, I didn't even blink. I sort of even saw it coming.

      One of the only reasons I'm still watching this show is because I want to see how the story will finish, and because I want to see Bellarke happen. I mean, Flarke and Clexa were thrown out, and there's a slim chance it might've been to make room for Bellarke.

      One of the things I'm really confused about is Clarke. Why isn't she doing anything? She barely even blinked when Pike and his entourage shot down that whole army. Then, suddenly, Titus makes her Fleimkepa, and she decides to travel to Arkadia. And this is when Ontari becomes commander! If she wanted to sneak into Arkadia, she could have done it when Lexa was commander! Besides, she shouldn't have tried to reason with Bellamy the first time she went there. He was already far from being persuaded to join the other side.

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    • Rainstorm239 wrote:
      WARNING ~ Spoilers for Arrow, do not read further if you haven't seen the latest episodes. (if you don't watch it, do what you want)


      Flash and Arrow are getting really good. I hope Arrow doesn't turn out like the 100 (killing off everyone), because after Laurel's death I feel like the showrunners might be thinking about taking a leaf out of JR's very unreliable book.

      All these deaths are just becoming the norm for this show. When Monroe died, I was in shock; she was one of my favorite characters. When Lexa died, I was also kind of surprised. I really have no opinion on her; I don't like her or dislike her. When Lincoln died, I didn't even blink. I sort of even saw it coming.

      One of the only reasons I'm still watching this show is because I want to see how the story will finish, and because I want to see Bellarke happen. I mean, Flarke and Clexa were thrown out, and there's a slim chance it might've been to make room for Bellarke.

      One of the things I'm really confused about is Clarke. Why isn't she doing anything? She barely even blinked when Pike and his entourage shot down that whole army. Then, suddenly, Titus makes her Fleimkepa, and she decides to travel to Arkadia. And this is when Ontari becomes commander! If she wanted to sneak into Arkadia, she could have done it when Lexa was commander! Besides, she shouldn't have tried to reason with Bellamy the first time she went there. He was already far from being persuaded to join the other side.

      The Flash hasn't had an issue up until now. Well, I am disappointed that Barry and Iris haven't been moving forward with the meant-to-be relationship, but oh well. Arrow fixed the boring and annoying season 3 that despite the Al Ghul stuff it was their worst yet. Laurel's death was the worst decision. WHO KILLS THE CANARY WHO IS LIKE THE OTHER PROTAGONIST OF GREEN ARROW? Dinah Lance was Oliver's biggest love in the comics! People, ANYBODY HEAR THE STUPIDITY OF THE DECISION? Kate didn't even have another gig that would mean they'd have to kill her off!


      Back to the 100. So, yeah, Bellarke might be a reason people are still watching, but never forget, we still got Raven's ark, Jasper and Monty's fall out, Octavia's path to who she is etc. They messed them up (what's with showrunners and 3rd seasons? They'd better not kill The Flash franchise next year!), but there's still hope.


      As for Clarke, she didn't know the entire situation with A.L.I.E and Jaha and Pike back in arkadia only that Pike and Bellamy killed 300 people in cold blood (299 if Indra was a part of 300). Also, she did say she came back for Lincoln because he was the only one who knew where Luna was, so that explains it. Next week it's original Delinquents reunion so she's bound to have more action.

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    • nyah and clarke back together.... must say when i watched the promo that bed where raven was seemed familiar... also, finnaly jasper and clarke reunion.... that "you really are the angel of death" he said to her at the end of the episode, i LOLd.... now they magicly team up with the rest of them, and clarek is most likely gonna put becca in raven instead of jasper making wrist band work the way raven described in a very graphic way episode earlier..... but i guess that would be just too logical....

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    • Skyzy wrote:
      TheDragonair wrote:
      Also, both the 100 and TVD belong to The CW network, so if The 100 did something that might affect their longest and one of their most popular so (because Arrow and The Flash have clearly gained more popularity the last few years but TVD is still adn always be a classic), producers really don't want to piss the network off. A nework can pull the plug on a show just because. TVD is probably in the clear about that due to popularity but The 100 isn't.
      Don't forget Jane the Virgin where they also killed off LGBTQ a couple of weeks before Lexa's death. There's a saying about once is chance, twice is coincidence, three times is a pattern. Now tell me what that says about the Network?

      An another article (google: "feministing recent deaths on cw shows matter" by Katie Barnes) about CW's questionable behaviour:

      "To say that the CW has handled it badly would be a gross understatement. Rothenberg, after staying relatively silent for weeks, gave an interview to TV Insider to essentially say “sorry not sorry.” It was only after more pushback from fans that Rothenberg published an open letter that finally officially apologized… nearly one month after the episode, and days before a scheduled panel appearance at WonderCon, where he reportedly banned all questions about Lexa. The window for believed sincerity had definitely closed.

      Given this clusterfuck, it is unbelievable that this past Thursday night even happened: The 100 violently executed a man of color [...] And they showed the blood and bullet holes. [...] His death conjured images of police brutality and the casual ways in which black men are chained and executed in this country. Fiction reflecting reality isn’t always a problem, but it is when the loaded imagery lacks commentary or political awareness.

      With all eyes on their channel right now, one would think there would have been some crafty editing and/or a reexamining of the content in their shows. Apparently that has not been the case, proving once again the need for diversity in writers’ rooms, show running positions, and television executives."

      That was my initial thought as well, especially that they had the two weeks break. They could've edit some stuff out. I cannot believe that it is so hard to polish the material a bit more. If somebody comes with "it was a creative decision" again... at that point it should've been damage control, being smart, not being stubborn, holding onto the "I CAN, so I WILL do this" attitude...

      Yeah, it will be interesting to see how the CW recovers from this, or to what extent will they be affected by everything that's going on.

      As you said Skyze, third time the same trick is already too old and obvious; and if that's true and indeed that visible, then the network has to do something(implicitly: change stuff for the better), right? Or I'm being waay too optimistic and naive?...

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    • well, i must go in here and put my opinion "on the table"....

      again, this is just my perspective, so please, no hate intended:

      leasbian death trope is real, but sorry, so what? it is s trend, if the show runners want to do it, its no difrent from american movies making the good guy win, or that whole "its just a dream" plot..... ways of making movies and tv shows, nothing more, sorry....

      self harm? really? she was controled and that scene was pretty damn good acting, if you tried to kill yourself, then that was your decision, noone elses. the fact that you cant control those emotions and that seeing stuff like that gets to you, means you need help, show di not make you do anything so dont blame them for making a dark plot.... seriously, what about horror movies?  others, who just claim that it was wrong, its a plot.... dark plot....

      rape scene.... debatable.... maybe, but it was probably more domination than anything else.... again, if something like that hapened to you, it was wrong, but the show is not to blame for that.... and what they put in their own show.... i spit on your grave.... 3 movies, so.....

      now, to the writing stuff.... there i agree, stupid, unedited and too rushed.... but really, if the show puts something in.... dont be too emotional about it, not everything is a conspiracy you know.... just because you see something it doesnt mean youre right... jr bullied ricky off the show and made pike kill him for drama... nothing else, no black peoples opression here....

      with all that being said, i would just like to point out that this is just my opinion, nothing else, nothing more.... i do not intend to ba an ass or anything, and i like seeing other peoples opinions, but honestly??? taking away the piss poor excuse for writing, the acting was and is amazing.... and some people seem to make to big of a deal out of nothing....

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    • Redlion14 wrote:

      An another article (google: "feministing recent deaths on cw shows matter" by Katie Barnes) about CW's questionable behaviour:

      "To say that the CW has handled it badly would be a gross understatement. Rothenberg, after staying relatively silent for weeks, gave an interview to TV Insider to essentially say “sorry not sorry.” It was only after more pushback from fans that Rothenberg published an open letter that finally officially apologized… nearly one month after the episode, and days before a scheduled panel appearance at WonderCon, where he reportedly banned all questions about Lexa. The window for believed sincerity had definitely closed.

      Given this clusterfuck, it is unbelievable that this past Thursday night even happened: The 100 violently executed a man of color [...] And they showed the blood and bullet holes. [...] His death conjured images of police brutality and the casual ways in which black men are chained and executed in this country. Fiction reflecting reality isn’t always a problem, but it is when the loaded imagery lacks commentary or political awareness.

      With all eyes on their channel right now, one would think there would have been some crafty editing and/or a reexamining of the content in their shows. Apparently that has not been the case, proving once again the need for diversity in writers’ rooms, show running positions, and television executives."

      Congrats to the article writer. Now that's a fine explanation of the nonsense the show has pulled BECAUSE of the showrunner! 

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    • Myheartisskippingbeats wrote:
      now, to the writing stuff.... there i agree, stupid, unedited and too rushed.... but really, if the show puts something in.... dont be too emotional about it, not everything is a conspiracy you know.... just because you see something it doesnt mean youre right... jr bullied ricky off the show and made pike kill him for drama... nothing else, no black peoples opression here....

      No, Lincoln's death was flat out oppression of not just the character but also the Actor. It was a poorly done racist plot to start with and his death was abruptly planned by JR in revenge (Lincoln was supposed to live to at least the finale). JR wanted him to go out in the most disgustingly racist and demeaning way possible and wrote that death in the most disgustingly racist and demeaning way possible.

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    • Myheartisskippingbeats wrote:
      well, i must go in here and put my opinion "on the table"....

      again, this is just my perspective, so please, no hate intended:

      leasbian death trope is real, but sorry, so what? it is s trend, if the show runners want to do it, its no difrent from american movies making the good guy win, or that whole "its just a dream" plot..... ways of making movies and tv shows, nothing more, sorry....

      self harm? really? she was controled and that scene was pretty damn good acting, if you tried to kill yourself, then that was your decision, noone elses. the fact that you cant control those emotions and that seeing stuff like that gets to you, means you need help, show di not make you do anything so dont blame them for making a dark plot.... seriously, what about horror movies?  others, who just claim that it was wrong, its a plot.... dark plot....

      rape scene.... debatable.... maybe, but it was probably more domination than anything else.... again, if something like that hapened to you, it was wrong, but the show is not to blame for that.... and what they put in their own show.... i spit on your grave.... 3 movies, so.....

      now, to the writing stuff.... there i agree, stupid, unedited and too rushed.... but really, if the show puts something in.... dont be too emotional about it, not everything is a conspiracy you know.... just because you see something it doesnt mean youre right... jr bullied ricky off the show and made pike kill him for drama... nothing else, no black peoples opression here....

      with all that being said, i would just like to point out that this is just my opinion, nothing else, nothing more.... i do not intend to ba an ass or anything, and i like seeing other peoples opinions, but honestly??? taking away the piss poor excuse for writing, the acting was and is amazing.... and some people seem to make to big of a deal out of nothing....

      I'm agreeing with you on the troupe idea. Though it's ended up being a cliche and upsetting people so, maybe ease up a bit! That would be a better strategy.

      Also, DON'T take self-harm lightly. Self harm SHOULDN'T be promoted. I have a close friend who has done that to herself out of desperation and depression and frankly, she did it because she didn't have anyone to talk her out of it by simply telling her "It's a bad idea. Talk to me instead and we'll figure it out." I agree, Raven wasn't really herself and I pointed out too, but some people see it as promotion to a REALLY bad action.

      As for the Murphy scene, I don't label it. Murphy is already too complex in my head to call it rape. The guy has a con behind a con, in his head, trusts only himself and doesn't really give a damn as long as he keeps his neck away from sharp objects.

      Yes, true, sometimes people read too much into things, but it's human nature. There is a conspiracy theory ON EVERYTHING. So, a showrunner none the less should anticipate this. Hell, I am a writer and I am uncomfortable with overstepping boundaries on some topics. Simply because of people's overperseption. 


      Also, I don't think anyone will disagree on the acting part. Ricky only had like 6 scenes the whole season and he still was an excellent performer despite the bullying and feeling down.

      (Sorry if you didn't expect a reply to that, but I got a bad habit of replying when I have an opinion to give. Sorry :P)

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    • 12938193 1032731733459756 5291148837880711388 n
      please tell me this is photoshopped!

      seriously, ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME??????????

      so now bellarke is gonna be a fucking rebound, cause clarke is not over her last love, and is gonna be remembering feelings from her time with nyah or something???? just.... WTF?

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    • i mean, i know it says fanart, its just that thera was meant to be a bellarke kiss in the next epidsode ot 2 so....

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    • I'm gonna be sick... *puke* 

      and this is not cos of ships, but cos it's not adding up. No, in the story their relationship was never like that, there was no romantic chemistry ever between them.


      (kinda joking:) If Clarke sleeps with him for rebound, I'd love to see that but with the end that she throws Bellamy away in a heartless way, leaving him feeling used and useless. Just to show she is incapable of love and that she is broken. Bellamy will be only collateral damage, which seems fair as form of punishment for all his sins. Problem is after that probably he would kill 300 grounders by himself, no help need, just to reassure himself he is a that man... 

      Hmm I convinced myself, I'm sold, now they should make it happen! Like, really, Clarke has to become again or even more so a stone cold btch, that'd actually make sense, if they really do not want to treat her as a real(as real as character can be) human being, aka not giving her a mental breakdown which is long overdue, then this is a good alternative imo. :D ;)

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    • I wouldn't worry. JR is only going to give little crumbs of Bellarke for the rest of S3 because he needs to rope in viewers for Season Four. The speculated kiss is probably going to be Niylah and Clarke.

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    • Aww, I was so hoping it would go thru. Hurting another person deeply just because one is sooo immeasurably fck up is also not a very nice thing to see on screen, being the rebound person is not ever a good feeling, so that would fit perfectly into season 3! 

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    • Redlion14 wrote:
      Hurting another person deeply just because one is sooo immeasurably fck up is also not a very nice thing to see on screen

      I thought you were talking about JR here for a moment....

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    • Skyzy wrote:
      Redlion14 wrote:
      Hurting another person deeply just because one is sooo immeasurably fck up is also not a very nice thing to see on screen
      I thought you were talking about JR here for a moment....

      Lol. You are right... ^^

      BTW I cannot keep track on which thread/conversation it was mentioned, but as you seem to be everywhere at once, you might know what I'm referring to. So someone mentioned that it is visible in the show that the actors have had enough of all the drama!? Or I completely misunderstood / remember incorrectly/ out of context and it was said with regards to the interviews of the cast??

      Oh, yeah the question was, if indeed it is visible in the show, who, when, how? (now that I think about it, it seems silly, as the show was shot waaay before all this BS tornado hit, but still, shit was real then, so there is a possibility?)

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    • yeah, i saw some clips about wondercon, survival con and some interviews..... actors and writers are visibly not happy with the direction of this show this season...... and shouldnt be, if you ask me... but where was that visible ONSCREEN? must say, i didnt detect anything but, dare i say, "godlike" acting skills.... like clexa bedscene, raven acting like alie.....

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    • Myheartisskippingbeats wrote:

      12938193 1032731733459756 5291148837880711388 n
      please tell me this is photoshopped!

      seriously, ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME??????????

      so now bellarke is gonna be a fucking rebound, cause clarke is not over her last love, and is gonna be remembering feelings from her time with nyah or something???? just.... WTF?

      Please let that be photoshopped... I ship Bellarke. Actually, it might even be classified as an otp for me, but it's just not going to work this season. Clarke deserted Bellamy, Bellamy betrayed Clarke. You get the idea. If they do kiss though, I hope it's real and not another deceptive betrayal thing.

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    • Redlion14 wrote:
      So someone mentioned that it is visible in the show that the actors have had enough of all the drama!? Or I completely misunderstood / remember incorrectly/ out of context and it was said with regards to the interviews of the cast??

      I don't think it's visible in the show itself so my guess is that they were saying it in reference to interviews. The acting has been one of the only good things about this season, which is actually unfortunate because all it does is highlight how terrible the plot and character development have been.

      Even the ComicCon interviews from last July, the cast was making snarky comments that in hindsight point exactly to all the problems we're now seeing on the show. (For example, in one of the interviews, LM asked someone if they really wanted to see Bellarke happen and if they were really sure.)

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    • No, no fucking way... I refuse to believe that's going to happen, it gotta be photoshopped.

      Bellarke never, ever, made any kind of sense... i'm sorry for Bellarke's fans, but it's just the truth. If the book didn't exist, i'm sure no one would ever even come up with that romantic pair ship to begin with. They have ZERO romantic chemistry, which is normal, 'cause it was never meant to happen on the show, nothing ever indicated that (apart from Bellarke's fans and apparently the book, which i wouldn't even know if it weren't for them 'cause i never read it).

      So if it never did, why the hell would it happen now?! If it never made sense, right now, at this point, it makes even less sense.

      Clarke and Bellamy are in a terrible place of their FRIENDship:

      1. He tried to actually arrest her and basically to sum it all up, just went full dark and became this mass murderer crazy person, who helped another delusional person to take their own people to war, and so to the brink of likely extinction, 'cause there's no way they'll win a war against the grounders (specially now with Ontari as fake Commander). This is just everything Clarke tried to prevent since like, ever.

      2. Let's state the obvious once again, she was / is completely in love with Lexa, who just died in her arms. She's completely heartbroken, grieving... How the hell would she even have the emotional capacity to feel interested for someone, specially Bellamy, for whom she never had romantic feelings, just companionship / friendship, and who just became the most unattractive person in all ways possible?!

      It would be the worse romantic storyline choice ever. Don't think so.

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    • Show addict wrote:

      So if it never did, why the hell would it happen now?! If it never made sense, right now, at this point, it makes even less sense.

      Just wanted to point out the title of this thread: Plot? What Plot?

      NOTHING makes sense anymore. If it's any consolation, they need to keep stringing along the Bellarke fans because they're pretty much the only people left in the fandom who are still watching so it probably won't happen until Season Four.

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    • Show addict wrote: No, no fucking way... I refuse to believe that's going to happen, it gotta be photoshopped.

      Bellarke never, ever, made any kind of sense... i'm sorry for Bellarke's fans, but it's just the truth. If the book didn't exist, i'm sure no one would ever even come up with that romantic pair ship to begin with. They have ZERO romantic chemistry, which is normal, 'cause it was never meant to happen on the show, nothing ever indicated that (apart from Bellarke's fans and apparently the book, which i wouldn't even know if it weren't for them 'cause i never read it).

      So if it never did, why the hell would it happen now?! If it never made sense, right now, at this point, it makes even less sense.

      Clarke and Bellamy are in a terrible place of their FRIENDship:

      1. He tried to actually arrest her and basically to sum it all up, just went full dark and became this mass murderer crazy person, who helped another delusional person to take their own people to war, and so to the brink of likely extinction, 'cause there's no way they'll win a war against the grounders (specially now with Ontari as fake Commander). This is just everything Clarke tried to prevent since like, ever.

      2. Let's state the obvious once again, she was / is completely in love with Lexa, who just died in her arms. She's completely heartbroken, grieving... How the hell would she even have the emotional capacity to feel interested for someone, specially Bellamy, for whom she never had romantic feelings, just companionship / friendship, and who just became the most unattractive person in all ways possible?!

      It would be the worse romantic storyline choice ever. Don't think so.

      Okay, I agree with the whole Bellamy going dark thing, but Lexa completely betrayed Clarke in season 2 and she forgave her after like a day in Polis. It may take Clarke a little longer to forgive Bellamy, but seriously, I don't think they'll totally hate each other forever. Also, they have "zero romantic chemistry"? I'm not trying to super-ship Bellarke, but they definitely have chemistry. That time in "Day Trip" when he was teaching her how to shoot a gun? In Season 2, when they were both trying to find each other? They don't have zero romantic chemistry.

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    • Rainstorm239 wrote:
      Okay, I agree with the whole Bellamy going dark thing, but Lexa completely betrayed Clarke in season 2 and she forgave her after like a day in Polis. It may take Clarke a little longer to forgive Bellamy, but seriously, I don't think they'll totally hate each other forever. Also, they have "zero romantic chemistry"? I'm not trying to super-ship Bellarke, but they definitely have chemistry. That time in "Day Trip" when he was teaching her how to shoot a gun? In Season 2, when they were both trying to find each other? They don't have zero romantic chemistry.

      Bellamy and Clarke have amazing chemistry together. Is it romantic? According to everyone from the show-runner to the writers to the actors, it is NOT. That is, until they killed Lexa. And now Bob Morley is coming out saying Bellamy realized he loved Clarke in Watch the Thrones when she stayed behind with Lexa?

      Problem with all of this: whatever happened to Gina!?!?

      Bellamy was turned into a petulant child throwing a temper tantrum by murdering 300 sleeping Grounders for reasons that still haven't been properly explained or explored. I've never been a big fan of Clarke but she deserves someone (male or female) better than an unpredictable and homicidal lackey who has no control over his emotions and is consumed with meaningless wangst for a fridged girlfriend that he forgot about seconds after she died.

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    • Rainstorm239 wrote:
      Okay, I agree with the whole Bellamy going dark thing, but Lexa completely betrayed Clarke in season 2 and she forgave her after like a day in Polis. It may take Clarke a little longer to forgive Bellamy, but seriously, I don't think they'll totally hate each other forever. Also, they have "zero romantic chemistry"? I'm not trying to super-ship Bellarke, but they definitely have chemistry. That time in "Day Trip" when he was teaching her how to shoot a gun? In Season 2, when they were both trying to find each other? They don't have zero romantic chemistry.

      Yes you're right Lexa did betray Clarke, but in a total different and kind of understandable way. It was wrong of course, but there was a major positive goal, her obligation as the Commander to save her people. Bellamy just murdered 300 people while they were sleeping, people who were there to protect them (and i'm not even gonna get into the fact that he arrested her). Slightly different isn't it? And she didn't forgive Lexa in like a day, MW had happened three months ago, she was still very pissed at her and even after being in Polis it took weeks for her to come around, understand Lexa's betrayal and to forgive her.

      People observe and interpret things in different ways obviously, but IMO yes, there is zero romantic chemistry between them, which is normal, 'cause it was never meant to be. Even in cast interviews, you can see from the reactions of JR and the cast that Bellarke was never supposed to be a thing.

      I don't remember very well those exact scenes you pointed out, but i'm sure that to me it felt like chemistry as friends, not lovers.

      I do hope that at some point, not this season 'cause it's obviously too soon and wrong, Clarke will have a new love interest (if Lexa is really gone), but not him sorry.

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    • Skyzy wrote:

      Bellamy and Clarke have amazing chemistry together. Is it romantic? According to everyone from the show-runner to the writers to the actors, it is NOT. That is, until they killed Lexa. And now Bob Morley is coming out saying Bellamy realized he loved Clarke in Watch the Thrones when she stayed behind with Lexa?

      Problem with all of this: whatever happened to Gina!?!?

      Bellamy was turned into a petulant child throwing a temper tantrum by murdering 300 sleeping Grounders for reasons that still haven't been properly explained or explored. I've never been a big fan of Clarke but she deserves someone (male or female) better than an unpredictable, uncontrollable, and homicidal lackey who is overcome by meaningless wangst for a fridged girlfriend that he forgot about seconds after she died.

      WTF?! He actually said that? Where?

      The next step is to say that Clarke staying behind with Lexa is the reason why he went on his psycho homicidal trip, 'cause he was so crazy jealous and heartbroken that he just lost it.

      Is that why he tried to arrest her too? Because he loves her so much he couldn't let her go back to Lexa?!

      Couldn't agree more with what you said there in the last paragraph, apart from not being a big fan of Clarke, 'cause i actually really like her, and i've been missing her in the last episodes, she has been having very little screen time.

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    • ^Bob said Bellamy was in love with Clarke? It only became romantic feelings after Lexa died? Why? Because Clexa couldn't happen so now Bellarke *must* happen?

      A kiss in this season or even in season four between Bellamy and Clarke is quite disrespectful to the Clexa fans. Hell, their story isn't even finished. They reunite again in the CoL in the finale, so why If Jason wants to lose the remainder of his viewers, that's a sure way to get the job done. Regardless, Clarke needs an immense amount of time to get over Lexa's death before any other relationship.





      (But let's be real, if she does love again, can it pretty please with a cherry on top be Niylah? Good chemistry and Niylah genuinely cared about Clarke from the start.)

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    • Well if we're making requests let's do it properly then...

      Can you 'pretty please with a cherry on top' find a way to just bring Lexa back even if for only a few episodes in season 4 and keep her as Clarke's one and only love interest? And while you're at it, could you please make her kick some asses too?

      Go big or go home am i right?

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    • TheOmegaWerewolf wrote:
      ^Bob said Bellamy was in love with Clarke? It only became romantic feelings after Lexa died? Why? Because Clexa couldn't happen so now Bellarke *must* happen?

      Before Lexa died. Bob said it in a recent intervew or convention (it happened sometime in the last week or two (possibly WonderCon?)). It was something along the lines of "Bellamy realized his feelings for Clarke in 3x05."

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    • Skyzy wrote:
      TheOmegaWerewolf wrote:
      ^Bob said Bellamy was in love with Clarke? It only became romantic feelings after Lexa died? Why? Because Clexa couldn't happen so now Bellarke *must* happen?
      Before Lexa died. Bob said it in a recent intervew or convention (it happened sometime in the last week or two (possibly WonderCon?)). It was something along the lines of "Bellamy realized his feelings for Clarke in 3x05."

      Well it was after Lexa died then, 'cause she already died like a month ago or so and WonderCon was after that.

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    • ^No, I meant Bellamy realized his feelings for Clarke before Lexa died. Bob mentioned it after Lexa died. ;)

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    • Oh my God!!! Bellamy is in love with Clarke now....wow!


      @ShowaddictThe next step is to say that Clarke staying behind with Lexa is the reason why he went on his psycho homicidal trip, 'cause he was so crazy jealous and heartbroken that he just lost it.

      Is that why he tried to arrest her too? Because he loves her so much he couldn't let her go back to Lexa?!


      Yep! That's why he did it. It wasn't over Gina - but Clarke. Pure nonsense

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    • Milks26 wrote:
      Yep! That's why he did it. It wasn't over Gina - but Clarke. Pure nonsense

      Ah! So that means the trigger wasn't the MW/Gina plot but rather the moment Bellamy found out Niylah had slept with Clarke! That explains why he killed those elevator operator guys for no reason.

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    • I am a Bellarke fan so I think I have the right to say this....


      Did we seriously make this over Bellarke and Clexa? Really guys? After the whole "The show isn't about the ships"? Hell, I think JR is going to kill Bellamy because he is the ONLY one there who since season 1 heard the word Bellarke and got a rash.

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    • Skyzy wrote:
      Milks26 wrote:
      Yep! That's why he did it. It wasn't over Gina - but Clarke. Pure nonsense
      Ah! So that means the trigger wasn't the MW/Gina plot but rather the moment Bellamy found out Niylah had slept with Clarke! That explains why he killed those elevator operator guys for no reason.

      Hahaha funny!

      That's the thing, no one knows that Clarke and Niylah slept together right?

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    • roan might.....

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    • TheDragonair wrote:
      I am a Bellarke fan so I think I have the right to say this....


      Did we seriously make this over Bellarke and Clexa? Really guys? After the whole "The show isn't about the ships"? Hell, I think JR is going to kill Bellamy because he is the ONLY one there who since season 1 heard the word Bellarke and got a rash.

      We're not making this over Bellarke or Clexa, we're just commenting possibilities because of that, i'm guessing, photoshopped pic.

      Well a rash maybe, but pretty much all of them kept having bad reactions when they heard Bellarke and questions related to that. For example i remember vividly Eliza Taylor's reaction at her Q&A in Florida Supercon last year, when she was asked by a fan if she thought there was any hope for Bellamy and Clarke, she literally was like "Oh my Goood", with a "not the Bellarke thing again" look.

      They would never consider killing Bellamy... Even though he kind of deserved!

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    • Show addict wrote:
      TheDragonair wrote:
      I am a Bellarke fan so I think I have the right to say this....


      Did we seriously make this over Bellarke and Clexa? Really guys? After the whole "The show isn't about the ships"? Hell, I think JR is going to kill Bellamy because he is the ONLY one there who since season 1 heard the word Bellarke and got a rash.

      We're not making this over Bellarke or Clexa, we're just commenting possibilities because of that, i'm guessing, photoshopped pic.

      Well a rash maybe, but pretty much all of them kept having bad reactions when they heard Bellarke and questions related to that. For example i remember vividly Eliza Taylor's reaction at her Q&A in Florida Supercon last year, when she was asked by a fan if she thought there was any hope for Bellamy and Clarke, she literally was like "Oh my Goood", with a "not the Bellarke thing again" look.

      They would never consider killing Bellamy... Even though he kind of deserved!

      There are several interviews where Eliza made faces and comments how Bellarke is not something she wants to see in the show, I think even Bob said that up until apparently a couple of weeks ago. 

      About the topic of killing Bellamy. Never will happen. Although story-wise that's about the only thing that would make sense, or banish him, or at least put him in prison for an entire season. Oh I have a good one, make him a slave in Polis, that's a win-win, on one hand he would do his time, try to atone for his actions by serving the people he massacred and on the other, the viewers would see more of Polis/Grounder culture.

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    • sorry, but.... you know when he flipped sides AGAIN and turned pike in, "helping" kane and octavia..... and then kane told him something about being lost..... you know, that 10 fucking seconds..... THATS HIS FUCKING REDEMPTION ARC..... hes bellamy now... once again......

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    • Myheartisskippingbeats wrote:
      sorry, but.... you know when he flipped sides AGAIN and turned pike in, "helping" kane and octavia..... and then kane told him something about being lost..... you know, that 10 fucking seconds..... THATS HIS FUCKING REDEMPTION ARC..... hes bellamy now... once again......

      Wait, I thought his redemption arc was in that one speciifc glance in Terms and Conditions when Kane was sentenced to death?

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    • nah, he then changed sides with pike again, you know when he tells them where monty and siclair are, he has a glimpse of pause, thats when he changes sides again....

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    • Myheartisskippingbeats wrote:
      nah, he then changed sides with pike again, you know when he tells them where monty and siclair are, he has a glimpse of pause, thats when he changes sides again....

      I can't keep track anymore. So bascially, he's on whatever side the plot needs him to be on regardless of reason.

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    • So, what happened with the interned Grounders Lincoln sacrificed himself for? Are they now also part of the CoL?

      And what was the purpose of Ontari raping Murphy? Is she trying to get pregnant? Is it going to be explored any further with Murphy's psyche? Is it just being used to create drama in the Memori relationship? What was the point?

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    • Skyzy wrote:
      So, what happened with the interned Grounders Lincoln sacrificed himself for? Are they now also part of the CoL?

      And what was the purpose of Ontari raping Murphy? Is she trying to get pregnant? Is it going to be explored any further with Murphy's psyche? Is it just being used to create drama in the Memori relationship? What was the point?

      That's a good question, it wasn't addressed in this episode... But i think that's a very strong possibility they basically want everyone they can get so they fit into that category, along with everyone else i guess! And they definitely had a lot more people converted in this last episode, it's already becoming a legion.

      I think Ontari and Murphy will become a couple and i'm kind of hoping that happens 'cause i think they would make a very interesting and kickass one for sure... And Murphy would have to sort of become more of a good guy, to kind of counterbalance Ontari's craziness and rage, and keep her from killing everyone. I think it would be interesting to see how / whether that would work or not.

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    • I don't think ALIE wants Grounders in the CoL. She might only want the SP since they were also her creator's people.

      I mean, yeah, she has the outcasts but I feel like she's just using them to achieve her bigger goal: get all of the SP to the CoL.

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    • TheOmegaWerewolf wrote:
      I don't think ALIE wants Grounders in the CoL. She might only want the SP since they were also her creator's people.

      I mean, yeah, she has the outcasts but I feel like she's just using them to achieve her bigger goal: get all of the SP to the CoL.

      Don't think so... Remember Emori's brother? Jaha gave him the chip and he wasn't SP, nor was that giant guy.

      And why would she only want SP in the CoL?

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    • Show addict wrote:

      TheOmegaWerewolf wrote:
      I don't think ALIE wants Grounders in the CoL. She might only want the SP since they were also her creator's people.

      I mean, yeah, she has the outcasts but I feel like she's just using them to achieve her bigger goal: get all of the SP to the CoL.

      Don't think so... Remember Emori's brother? Jaha gave him the chip and he wasn't SP, nor was that giant guy.

      And why would she only want SP in the CoL?

      Like I said, those were the outcasts. All these years before the SP came down she needed someone's help, but we've never seen a non-outcast Grounder help her. Why? It makes it seem like she doesn't want them to know about her little world. And it just seems quite hard to get all Grounder Clans there.

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